When to decide enough is enough?

[summerfield]

I need some objective opinions on my situation.

I have a 9 year old navicular horse. Have had him for 2 years. Ongoing lameness despite intervention after intervention led me to finally deciding in July to put him down. I have a scheduled appointment 3 weeks from now.

2 weeks ago a new farrier came out to do his feet (I just needed him trimmed by someone). I said he could do whatever he wanted, and he put a reverse shoe/wedge pad combo on my horse that cost $250. Miraculously, for the first time in 2 years, my horse looks really good. I have been hopping on him, and, so far so good.

But here is where I am not sure what to do.

Right now he is in a backyard rough boarding situation roughly 45 minutes from my house. I see him 3 x / week, and the drive sucks. It often takes me close to an hour to get home with traffic. I only put him there because it was supposed to be temporary with the euthanization.

What I want? A barn nearby with a good community (I miss, really badly, having a barn community. It was a huge part of my social life), lessons, and reasonable boarding. I want to have FUN again. Having a crippled horse has crippled my riding progress and my enjoyment.

The reality is that in my barn-poor area, I am looking at a 30 minute drive still and a $700 board bill before adding on my $250 shoes.

I am reaching a point where I am overwhelmed. I am overwhelmed by the financial reality of keeping this horse going. I am overwhelmed and exhausted by the time and the driving. I have a stressful job, and between that and the horse, my social life, health, and fitness have all taken a back seat. And I desperately miss riding being fun. So much so that I can’t even convey how much. I ride dressage, and I LOVE it, but there are only a couple of dressage barns in my area. Most of them are too expensive for me to board at ($1000+), but, if I put my horse down, I could afford to lease/take lessons. And honestly, that’s what I want to do. I want to enjoy horses, not feel like a martyr with my albatross horse around my neck.

I feel really guilty and selfish for thinking that. I do. And trust me, I love this horse more than words can say. I am crying just typing this! I have spent two years and nearly five figures of vet bills on him.

But I had already decided to put this horse down, and part of me thinks, well, he could be sound for several years with expensive shoeing, but he might only be sound for 6 months. And then I am in the same position. And I can tell that from an emotional standpoint, I am really reaching a breaking point.

And with frozen ground coming, I need to make a decision soon, or else I will be stuck until the spring.

[goodhors]

I would put him down. New shoes, expensive price, is a short term fix, navicular is not self healing. Every step he takes is continuing to wear on the navicular area, despite what you do. Use him if he is going well at the moment, but keep his appointment. Better he goes on a good day, enjoyed his last bit of time, than an ugly ending by waiting longer. You cannot continue to hemmorage money and time at the expense of your mental health, to continue owning and caring for him. No one else will do as well by him as you have, he is a costly animal in upkeep, often lame, so giveaway is not an option.

Better a good, fast ending on a day he is not lame in his new shoes, than any alternatives. Winter is approaching, adding to reasons for letting him go. Then get yourself back together mentally with needed rest, financially ahead again, before looking for your new lesson barn. Don’t get sucked in to another horse purchase for awhile. It is too much drain on you with your other job stress at this point in time. When things change a lot, you might consider owning again. No blame for letting him go from me. I do not think you are taking “an easy out.” Sorry for you, always such a hard decision.

[PNWjumper]

Is he well trained? Is he rideable in general? Is he sound now that he’s in expensive shoes?

And then what sort of diagnostics did you do to determine that he was a navicular horse? Is it confirmed by x-ray? Or is it just long term NQR-ness that fits under the navicular category?

I struggle with a diagnosis of “navicular,” because often that just means “my farrier sucks.” I’ve seen many “navicular” horses over the years that really truly just had bad shoeing jobs/trims. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen x-rays of an older horse that didn’t have some degree of degradation via x-ray, which has long been a pet peeve of mine since there’s not really any correlation between that and true lameness-producing navicular syndrome.

If it’s truly ugly degeneration of the navicular bone and the horse’s only outlook is to go from where he is now back to lame in the not-too-distant future, then it would be kind to put him down before he starts going downhill again.

If it’s just a “no one could figure it out, but his feet are sore and it kind of fits with ‘navicular’” then perhaps the best shot would be to try to give him away with full disclosure that you have him shod a certain way to keep him sound.

[summerfield]

He has been diagnosed via both rads and MRI. There is no question about just diagnosis.
He is very green due to lack of use. Has never held up to regular work. And he is an anxious horse and hot. He would never be suitable for someone’s trail horse. He needs an experienced rider. I would never sell him, sorry. It wouldn’t end well.

And even with the shoes, he isn’t 100%. He is still catching his toes. (Tripping has always been a symptom for him). In my heart I think it is best to let him go.

Despite my hesitation, my vet supports my decision. This isn’t a casually made decision at all.

[Stacie]

A tripping horse is not a rideable horse. Don’t change your plan.

[mvp]

I have made this decision, in this very month about 4 years ago, and today, I’d do it again but sooner. So I’m now at the point of my life where I’m OK in speaking in terms that are somewhere between “very frank” and “blunt” about how to make euthanasia decision.

1. If he were mine, I’d put this horse down, for the following reasons: He has diagnosed navicular disease that perhaps can be managed… for a time, and at great expense. But! That would not yield a horse you wanted to ride. And it won’t make him a great horse for someone else who knows enough to ride him as a hot-n-green 9-year-old. Someone with enough skill and desire to do that is (almost always) going to want a sounder horse to invest int. I would not give this horse away unless I found a truly sterling and trustworthy situation for him. Most of the time, euthanasia is done well and is a peaceful, unforeseen experience for horses. Just do yours right.

2. That said, you must know that putting down this horse won’t solve the rest of your problems-- with time, money, lack of community (tied to not having a horse to ride with folks) etc. In other words, if you will find the $1k/month to board the next, sound horse but can’t find $700 and $250 in shoes to try and make this one sound enough to be your riding horse (which you need in order to have a community and the rest), don’t kid yourself. Those numbers are close enough that you appear to be unwilling to invest in making this horse sound, That’s cool; it’s not my animal. But if that’s your truth, then I suggest you own it so that you are clear about this cause of your wishing to euthanize.

Part of the reason I say I will euthanize my next not-riding-sound horse sooner is that I did spend 6 years writing checks and not riding the way I wanted to because I could not afford to both support my retired man and another one to ride and learn on. I cannot get that time back. I was/am proud of having done right by my retired horse, but when I weigh out the good death he had (and could have had on any given day prior) against what I lost, I’d make a more self-interested decision. But again, I am clear-- this other decision would have more of my self-interest in it and less of the assumed interest of any animal to just stay alive. If/when I own a farm rather than board, this might change a bit. But I’m sure I won’t turn into the one who feeds lots of retirees. I just learned too much about balancing interests to be willing to do that again.

Maybe this is too harsh, but I hate it when 1. People deny that there are multiple and sometimes conflicting interests in play. (Though for some people and in some cases, it really is purely the “horse’s call” and the ethics of the situation are simple and pure.) 2. They say they want to euthanize for altruistic reasons and then list others that are plainly not. If you are going to take the life of an innocent creature (for any reason), I think the gravity of the situation demands complete honesty from all involved. No one should die because it was more convenient for someone else to lie.

[summerfield]

I just want to point out that I have no plans to run out and buy another horse. Hence my desire to lesson and lease, as stated. I would never pay 1000 for board. Not for any horse. But yes, I can take lessons once a week at such a barn.

​​​​​​​And, yes, I am reluctant to pay 700 in board for a horse whose shoes cost 250/month and may not stay sound in them for very long. I love him, and I love riding him, even if it is only flatwork 3x/week. If I thought he would stay sound, I would do it! But I don’t. I am reluctant to move him, get my hopes up, and end up in the same position of having a lame horse again. It is not that I can’t pay it, but that I don’t see the point of two months later, he is lame again.

I guess I am feeling a little attacked. I don’t think I am denying that finances are a factor. Of course they are. I don’t have a backyard! But I am not going out and getting a “newer model,” and I dont think I implied that.

[summerfield]

I have also spent something like $10k in trying to make this horse sound, so I have certainly been “willing to invest”.

[shiningwizard255]

Have you tried a bute and isoxoprine combo? My navicular horse was prescribed them and (in conjunction with MSM then later Majesty’s Flex Wafers) there was a noticeable improvement in her. She was pretty elderly when I got her (31!) and even factoring in arthritis too there was still a noticeable improvement once these were added. She was a pasture puff and passed away a couple of years later from something non-navicular related.

Is he still a happy horse otherwise? My suggestion is a compromise, if it’s a possibility financially for you and you haven’t tried those meds/supplements already. I’d retire him and find the cheapest yet nicest place possible for a retiree. Let him be a pasture puff (maybe where he is now?) with as much turnout as possible. He needs to be able to move, stall time isn’t doing him many favors. Find a good but more affordable farrier with the goal of pasture soundness, not riding sound. Try the medicines and supplements (they are all pretty affordable). Then just enjoy him as a pet, and take your lessons. You may be able to get more good time out him yet and still ride in lessons with some tweaks to everything.

I’m not judging you for your decision and wouldn’t blame you if you do put him down…navicular is tough. You have my sympathies for being in this situation! I just wanted to offer what worked for my mare if it’s something that you’d be interested in exploring as a possibility. Best of luck to you.
​​​​

[outerbanks77]

The not staying sound in work is a flag that even with the new shoes, there is a low probability of him continuing to improve. It sounds like he is not comfortable in the pasture without maintenance? That is my bar. I have a gelding who broke his knee but is happy enough in pasture without maintenance, so I pay his basic board until he’s no longer comfortable.

[RTF]

I would stay with your appt and go ahead and have the vet do the euthanasia. You have invested more than enough to have a diagnosis from vets. Not everyone has tons of money to throw at an unsound horse for years and years. Not everyone can afford to keep multiple horses. I board retired horses that have health issues. Lameness, sinus issues, severe laminitis flare ups, Cushings, etc. The owners are great, and very dedicated to keeping them going… but they have zero interest in riding. That same group of horses do have good days, but they also have had a lot of bad days mixed in when I felt like euthanasia would have been the right thing at the time. I think you are doing your horse right. You are not dumping him with the grandeur idea of someone giving him a great forever after home. He does have a medical issue that will continually cause him discomfort and pain. He can be spoiled rotten in the time being and is not getting shipped off to a horrible fate. Hugs to you for a difficult decision, but in my opinion, the right decision, for the info you gave the readers.

[Bluey]

@summerfield

I just want to point out that I have no plans to run out and buy another horse. Hence my desire to lesson and lease, as stated. I would never pay 1000 for board. Not for any horse. But yes, I can take lessons once a week at such a barn.

And, yes, I am reluctant to pay 700 in board for a horse whose shoes cost 250/month and may not stay sound in them for very long. I love him, and I love riding him, even if it is only flatwork 3x/week. If I thought he would stay sound, I would do it! But I don’t. I am reluctant to move him, get my hopes up, and end up in the same position of having a lame horse again. It is not that I can’t pay it, but that I don’t see the point of two months later, he is lame again.

I guess I am feeling a little attacked. I don’t think I am denying that finances are a factor. Of course they are. I don’t have a backyard! But I am not going out and getting a “newer model,” and I dont think I implied that.

Maybe is not “attacks”, but more to consider.

You asked, there will be all kinds of answers.
All valuable in general, not all applicable.
Only you can determine which ones are.
It is rightfully for your and your veterinarian to decide what is best.

Here are some guidelines:

https://aaep.org/horsehealth/euthana…icult-decision

We go by the old “better a day too soon than a minute too late”, where a horse with quesitonable quality of life eventually has a crisis and has to suffer unnecessarily.
There are enough times where that happens when no one knew it was coming.
At least when we do, we can provide to avoid that.

[mvp]

@summerfield

I just want to point out that I have no plans to run out and buy another horse. Hence my desire to lesson and lease, as stated. I would never pay 1000 for board. Not for any horse. But yes, I can take lessons once a week at such a barn.

And, yes, I am reluctant to pay 700 in board for a horse whose shoes cost 250/month and may not stay sound in them for very long. I love him, and I love riding him, even if it is only flatwork 3x/week. If I thought he would stay sound, I would do it! But I don’t. I am reluctant to move him, get my hopes up, and end up in the same position of having a lame horse again. It is not that I can’t pay it, but that I don’t see the point of two months later, he is lame again.

I guess I am feeling a little attacked. I don’t think I am denying that finances are a factor. Of course they are. I don’t have a backyard! But I am not going out and getting a “newer model,” and I dont think I implied that.

If you think I’m attacking you, please re-read my post. Not only do I think that finances and someone’s desired experience with horses both legit factors to consider (especially because euthanasia done right is not a bad experience), but I “own” that those self-interested factors are things I would consider in my own decision. If you don’t want to discuss those because you think that’s a tad unethical, that’s fine. But its solidly on “your side of the street.”

My other point was that it doesn’t matter whether you would replace this horse with a sounder one (legit and fine… it is what I would do) or didn’t buy, but did pour the cost of maintaining this horse into another form of riding. That’s fine, too, IMO. I only ask people to be honest about comparing the kinds of factors they are considering in the decision to euthanized. It doesn’t make your ethics one iota cleaner or dirtier to buy a sounder horse, lease a sounder or take a million lessons on someone else’s horse with the money you don’t want to put into this horse. You are not comparing “feed a lame horse” to “feed starving children.”

And another point of clarity. What you invested prior to finding a soundness solution for this horse is immaterial. The “obligation” in trying this $250 shoe job (if you want to see it that way) comes from the efficacy so far, not what it costs and, sadly, no one gets moral credit for having poured money into badly-chosen or otherwise ineffectual solutions in the past. Most horsemen in your shoes (and certainly I) have done this, too. We have spent a fortune and not found a solution yet. But at every round of this, the short-term efficacy was the factor that made us believe we could find a solution that allowed us to avoid euthanasia. We feel relief and hope! By the same token, when we have it confirmed that we (and medicine) are absolutely out of options, we feel more peace (if sadness) about having to euthanize. So, when you take a rigorous look at the ethics, the money you spent so far has no bearing on what kind of person you are if you don’t want to try again now with yet another attempt.

What you wrote next, BTW, wouldn’t change the path I’d take if this horse were mine. I find it really no fun to ride and manage a horse with “always iffy” soundness. BTDT and it sucks the joy out of horse ownership. I have retired horses for this reason. The other truth of the matter is that to some extent (usually not a great one), a horse who is limping or tripping is perceiving pain. So it’s not like there is an enormous and wonderful pay-off to him for cruising around,

The tough thing with animals, of course, is that the live in the present, so the guy we think is too lame to ask to do any forced work anymore is still accepting and pretty chipper about life for a long time and through many worse degrees of lameness. We never want to wait until a horse hurts to bad that he says so! That’s quite a bit of pain and unrelenting pain. But the animal being accepting of pain we are not is exactly the factor that makes the euthanasia decision so hard.

If I’m not the person to talk to you about euthanasia, that’s cool. I won’t post any more unless asked. Just go find people who you feel are more supportive of your point of view and do what you guys all decide is right. I just think we ought to be willing to think rigorously and with candor when we have the ability to take life as an outcome. Surely there’s no time more important to do our best, right? If you feel intellectually- and emotionally taxed, good! That means you are doing it right. Euthanasia in most cases is in a zone of ethics where things are “shades of grey,” not black-and-white, obviously right or obviously wrong, If this were easy, it would be the case the horse was suffering deeply or terminally (and bad) or that you didn’t care. Neither is the case here (according to what you wrote, as I read it), so you are feeling stuff that any decent person would.

I’m absolutely not willing to be the messenger who gets shot for saying so. Or you can do that, but here’s the thing; Making me the bad guy or wrong won’t actually help you feel better about the basis for your own ethics. You’ll get some satisfaction, I suppose, but not of the right kind that actually touches your problem.

Best wishes for a good outcome that everyone involved finds “good enough”!

[PNWjumper]

I agree with Bluey, and also live by the “better a day too soon than a minute too late” philosophy.

My apologies if you felt attacked by my post, but you did not provide any clarity on what you had done or what led you to your decision. Your post in short summary was, “My horse has been lame, I’ve tried to figure it out. He’s better now but I don’t want to spend money or time on him. Am I selfish for wanting to put him down?” No one can answer that from the information provided. And I don’t tend to make assumptions that people have gone to great diagnostic depths on an anonymous horse forum. You also didn’t tell us how much sounder he is (you just said he looks “really good,” which could mean anything from slightly less lame to totally sound). From what you’ve said in later posts, it sounds like you’ve been through the whole deep dive process, spent a significant amount of money, and even with this current change, he’s still not fully sound. And then on top of that he’s not a good riding horse for several reasons.

IOW, what you presented could have ranged from “winning upper level horse and schoolmaster deluxe who had been NQR for a couple of years and is now totally sound” to the other extreme, which seems to be what you have presented with subsequent information.

At the end of the day, you’re the only one who can make this decision. If you’re unwilling to send him to another home and he’s only going to go downhill from here then it sounds like it’s just a matter of timing. What will you gain if you keep him going for another 6 months? Year? 5 years? I think mvp had some wise words to say on the matter.

If you believe that his end is coming (and it sure sounds like it is from what you’ve presented), then truly the kindest decision is the one that lets him go while he’s in this momentary respite from the pain that will be coming back.

[sheltoneb]

I would keep the appointment. It sounds like you have done your due diligence to try to find a solution that works for the horse and is in your financial and emotional capabilities. This is a degenerate disease and the horse will degrade at a point in the future. Better to do it sooner than later than allow the horse to suffer. Ignore the what ifs because there will always be something else to try or the thought he has a good day and maybe it will stick.

FYI, I made similar decision about two years ago. In my horses case it was a bone spur in the knee. I put him down at 10 years old. It sucked, but I have never regretted making the decision to put hm down.

[Palm_Beach]

@summerfield

He has been diagnosed via both rads and MRI. There is no question about just diagnosis.
He is very green due to lack of use. Has never held up to regular work. And he is an anxious horse and hot. He would never be suitable for someone’s trail horse. He needs an experienced rider. I would never sell him, sorry. It wouldn’t end well.

And even with the shoes, he isn’t 100%. He is still catching his toes. (Tripping has always been a symptom for him). In my heart I think it is best to let him go.

Despite my hesitation, my vet supports my decision. This isn’t a casually made decision at all.

Don’t keep second guessing yourself. If you can’t keep him sound for regular riding, and you want to ride, you should put him down. It sucks to be in your position, but there is a sound horse out there somewhere for you that will benefit from what you have to offer.

[Cynical25]

Enjoy these last 3 weeks with him, then let him go peacefully.

[summerfield]

MVP, I guess we are having crossed communication lines, because I don’t see myself making you “the bad guy”, and I don’t think I have disagreed or said anything to the contrary of the point you are trying to make. Your post came across as patronizing to me when I thought I had made it clear that of course I have a self interest in euth. I am sorry if I read the tone incorrectly.

He seems so much sounder, and yet I question how sound he is, since he tripped twice today while riding. Granted, the ring is in bad shape, but still. And yet he is landing heel first for the first time. It is this kind of constant analysis that has sucked the joy out of riding for me.

I don’t want to support a 9 year old pasture puff. I question how pasture sound a horse is that isn’t sound for light work. And if he needs bute at 9, he isnt really sound. Even if I did want to retire him, he would be about an hour away (I am in Fairfield County, and there is no cheap pasture board anywhere near here.) I would really worry having him so far. But I also hate the optionoof putting him down. I would miss him horribly. His personality brings me so much joy. So of course I feel guilty. If I had a backyard, or lived somewhere with cheaper board…the whole decision sucks.

Thank you for the input, I really appreciate it. I just think there is no good answer here. Practicality says one thing, my heart says another. But my current board situation isn’t workable, and my options are limited.

[ladipus]

@summerfield

I need some objective opinions on my situation.

I have a 9 year old navicular horse. Have had him for 2 years. Ongoing lameness despite intervention after intervention led me to finally deciding in July to put him down. I have a scheduled appointment 3 weeks from now.

2 weeks ago a new farrier came out to do his feet (I just needed him trimmed by someone). I said he could do whatever he wanted, and he put a reverse shoe/wedge pad combo on my horse that cost $250. Miraculously, for the first time in 2 years, my horse looks really good. I have been hopping on him, and, so far so good.

But here is where I am not sure what to do.

Right now he is in a backyard rough boarding situation roughly 45 minutes from my house. I see him 3 x / week, and the drive sucks. It often takes me close to an hour to get home with traffic. I only put him there because it was supposed to be temporary with the euthanization.

What I want? A barn nearby with a good community (I miss, really badly, having a barn community. It was a huge part of my social life), lessons, and reasonable boarding. I want to have FUN again. Having a crippled horse has crippled my riding progress and my enjoyment.

The reality is that in my barn-poor area, I am looking at a 30 minute drive still and a $700 board bill before adding on my $250 shoes.

I am reaching a point where I am overwhelmed. I am overwhelmed by the financial reality of keeping this horse going. I am overwhelmed and exhausted by the time and the driving. I have a stressful job, and between that and the horse, my social life, health, and fitness have all taken a back seat. And I desperately miss riding being fun. So much so that I can’t even convey how much. I ride dressage, and I LOVE it, but there are only a couple of dressage barns in my area. Most of them are too expensive for me to board at ($1000+), but, if I put my horse down, I could afford to lease/take lessons. And honestly, that’s what I want to do. I want to enjoy horses, not feel like a martyr with my albatross horse around my neck.

I feel really guilty and selfish for thinking that. I do. And trust me, I love this horse more than words can say. I am crying just typing this! I have spent two years and nearly five figures of vet bills on him.

But I had already decided to put this horse down, and part of me thinks, well, he could be sound for several years with expensive shoeing, but he might only be sound for 6 months. And then I am in the same position. And I can tell that from an emotional standpoint, I am really reaching a breaking point.

And with frozen ground coming, I need to make a decision soon, or else I will be stuck until the spring.

I feel for you …what types of things have you done for him?? Have you tried Osphos? Coffin Joint or Navicular bursa Injections?? Daily Equioxx? Pentosan?? Supplements ?? Omega Alpha Antiflam, Naviculasaver hoof supplements?? Not sure what you have tried …but these are some things that have helped a horse of mine …along with keeping his toes back and a wedged heel built into the shoe …if you love the Horse …I would do whatever possible to try to keep him going

[IndysMom]

I had a horse like yours. It does suck the life out of your riding. I say keep your appointment.