When you just can't afford it anymore

Instead of just telling her no, try this approach…and how old is she anyway? 12 would be a little young for this but 14 or so on up it is right on.

Sit her down and treat this exactly like you would if she said she wanted to be a Doctor, a vet, an astrophysicist or whatever. In other words, treat it seriously and ask her to view it like a serious option.

What career around horses does she want? Does she understand she would have to be an employee of somebody else? Where? How is she specifically qualified for that position? What does it pay? Who would she work for? How would she qualify for it education wise? What does she need to do besides ride?

Usually, young to mid teens have this vague vision of their own training barn and riding the GPs but they have absolutely no idea how to get there and sort of assume it will simply happen if they want it bad enough.

Ask for specifics and you don’t look like the bad guy saying no all the time. Ask them to map out a plan for the next few years.

And do share every penny of the monthly cost of her horse to give her a perspective on what kind of income she will need to own her own horse. A W/S can’t provide enough labor in the kind of show barn that would actually help her gain a reputation to cover the 2k or so a month for all expenses.

You can also share barns like mine, an average high quality AA show barn that does take working students and can be a reputation builder, get anything from 30 to 50 inquiries a month for W/s positions. They offer only to those referrred by known pros and they cannot bring their own horse.

Just make it black and white and put the ball in her court. Don’t say absolutely not, given the hard facts she’ll probably do that herself.

My Animal Science degree made me a highly recruited microbiology grad student and by far the most prepared in my class, having already taken Biochem, micro, and med micro during my Animal Science curriculum. For whatever reason, I had a much stronger science background that the other grad students who came in with biology or even microbiology degrees. Most of my graduating class went on to Vet school, although several went to grad school as I did, and others went on to make good money managing hog farms, working in Ag Industry, and and various types of research and lab techs.

From what I understand Virginia Tech is a strong school, I would be surprised if there were not more options for her, if those places she is qualified for are hiring. That is a big if though.

Assuming she is old enough, if she seriously wants to do this then I agree, become a working student for a summer.

My two cents: Sell your horse and work for someone else and get experience riding as many horses as possible. Establish connections. Catch ride. If you can swing it, find a fancy greenbean to bring along to sell. Do over. Go on to a higher level barn. Learn all you can and establish more connections. Work hard and avoid involving yourself in drama.

Really, for the health care and insurance I would seriously consider a different field. If I had to do it all over, instead of going to law school, I would look a bit harder and pharmacy or being a dentist or eye doctor. I have friends who do each and have good, discretionary income, and ability to set their schedules somewhat without the time demands of, say being a doctor. This is just me wanting to go talk to my 18 year old self though…

I am an Animal and Dairy Science major, applying to vet school in the fall. There are lots of choices for us. My back ups consist of Med School and a PhD. How is that a waste of time and money?

Starting salaries for a equine nutritionist with a PhD working for a large feed company is near 6 figures.

Start salaries for Vet Pathologists are 6 figures.

What about getting scholarship and being on a NCAA team if she really is good enough to become a trainer? She could ride, get college paid for, and get some type of degree out of it.

[QUOTE=reay6790;5917421]
I am an Animal and Dairy Science major, applying to vet school in the fall. There are lots of choices for us. My back ups consist of Med School and a PhD. How is that a waste of time and money?

Starting salaries for a equine nutritionist with a PhD working for a large feed company is near 6 figures.

Start salaries for Vet Pathologists are 6 figures.

What about getting scholarship and being on a NCAA team if she really is good enough to become a trainer? She could ride, get college paid for, and get some type of degree out of it.[/QUOTE]

But how many openings are there?

There are many well paying careers you could choose, but if their is few jobs… it makes it extremely difficult to find work.

Scholarships, grants, all are available to the dedicated rider with the drive to get them. I worked full time, catch rode anything that was semi sane (youth immortal complex) and trained and sold horses to afford my horse. Worked on ranches during the summer, rode the hell out of some ponies and sold those. Managed to make my showing actually pay for my college. If it was horse related, safe and paid I did it. My parents could not afford the shows I wanted to go to but I did get sponsors with lots of perseverance, door knocking, and skill. I’m trying to do the same thing with DD. She rides Dressage and our local chapter gives grants and scholarships to kids. She’s too young to utilize them but I know where to go when she gets old enough. Most of your breed organizations offer scholarships so does the USEF and USDF. Here’s a lovely link with dressage ones.
http://www.houstondressagesociety.org/scholarships.php
http://www.usef.org/documents/Youth/affiliateScholarships.pdf

Just a guess here but I bet the feed store remark referred to the fact that is the closest job to working with horses she was offered.

Those degrees from good schools certainly do qualify them for a number of jobs but not riding.

Years back one of my best friends majored in what was called Ag Business Management and mostly worked for banks, closest she got to equine was bovine-a bloodstock agency that handled breeding bulls, She sold straws:lol:.

[QUOTE=findeight;5917441]
Just a guess here but I bet the feed store remark referred to the fact that is the closest job to working with horses she was offered.

Those degrees from good schools certainly do qualify them for a number of jobs but not riding.

Years back one of my best friends majored in what was called Ag Business Management and mostly worked for banks, closest she got to equine was bovine-a bloodstock agency that handled breeding bulls, She sold straws:lol:.[/QUOTE]

ahh… another good point.

Seriously, jobs directly working with equines, rarely pay well. Even when you get into things like Vets. For the hours, the equipment, and the student loan debt… the pay is horrible.

Thank you for the defense

The gal I know was going pre-vet and decided not to. Now What? Basically she has no clue and huge student loan coming due. She could go camp out in NYC come December.

Sure there are things that an Animal Science with a concentration in horse opens up for you, same as an archeology or english degree. I feel bad for the kid; I think there ought to be limits on what degrees are eligible for student loans.

I know another kid who got a partial scholarship to William Woods for a year. It was a complete waste of time and money, he would have been much better off at the local community college or trade school.

Just call it my personal pet peeve.

Personally I find it a huge problem here. Crippling young adults with such loans is just outrageous. I think our secondary education costs more than anywhere else, from what I’ve read.

I should add that friend made salary plus commission, worked mainly out of an office M-F 9 to 5 and that agency repped an assortment of very top bulls known to be exceptional producers in about 5 different breeds/types.

She made ALOT of money. As in ALOT ALOT. Enough to run a 3 head show string of a Hunter, a Jumper and a Reiner and show nationally.

Who’d a thunk…

Many posters have given some really great suggestions. Bottom line is, if you can’t afford it anymore, you can’t afford it. Do not risk your own financial health for the dreams of your child!

Along the lines of animal science, I went into a Petsmart wearing my breeches and boots. The cashier rpoudly informed me she was in school to be a equine nutritionist, and that career pays a lot of money! Ummm, no. Most of the horse owners I know are barely hanging on as it is, let alone paying for a nutritionist for their horse.

[QUOTE=findeight;5917499]
I should add that friend made salary plus commission, worked mainly out of an office M-F 9 to 5 and that agency repped an assortment of very top bulls known to be exceptional producers in about 5 different breeds/types.

She made ALOT of money. As in ALOT ALOT. Enough to run a 3 head show string of a Hunter, a Jumper and a Reiner and show nationally.

Who’d a thunk…[/QUOTE]

And all that from hawking bull spunk? Who woulda thought? :winkgrin:

How old if your daughter? If she is a teen she can get a job to help keep her horses. My parents never ever helped me with any of my horse ambitions. I have been working from the time I was 14. Their feelings were the same as many here: horses are not vital they are a hobby, get a real job… ect. I tried a real job and I went to school for a economics degree. I would rather jump off a cliff than work a “real” job again. I no longer care what my parents and the rest of the world think, i’m going to be a working student pretty much as long as I want after I am done being mauled by college in May. I am super happy being a cocktail waitress and being a bum. My parents still don’t understand but I also don’t care, I am happy for once in my life and I refuse to give that up.

Ummm, you mean you are going to be an adult working student as long as a barn wants you on that one?

[QUOTE=NancyM;5917324]
Ironwood’s reply is the sensible thing to do. For a less sensible option, send her to work at the local TB racetrack. Change of discipline. She must be 16 to be licensed. Still working with horses, and plenty of opportunity to learn, and to ride, and get paid for it all. Horse shows these days are the playground for rich people, at the racetrack, the rich people may be the majority of the owners, but horses can actually earn money, and workers get paid an approximation of what they are worth and can advance. Regular people can purchase, own, and train and compete with good horses, and it can be an economic situation because the horses claim their own competitive level no matter what they cost. And can earn money and be successful at that level, even if it is not a top level. Working in the racing industry will teach the realities of economic horse ownership.[/QUOTE]

I was going to say, you want to WORK in horses, go into the racing business. You don’t need to be loaded and you aren’t relying on a very small group of clientele using discretionary income, whose business you’re competing for with a whole lot of more established trainers. (Also, while they might not be glamorous, trainers tend to pay in money, not in “You can have a stall for Poopsie and this apartment over the feed room, and you only have to pay the utilities and for food/stall cleaning for Poopsie.”)

Really, ANY degree right now isn’t very helpful unless it’s in certain specialized engineering and technical/manufacturing fields, where they are crying for qualified applicants. If she wants to get into horses, though, and doesn’t want to go the bootstrap route at the racetrack, get a general business management degree and view it as running a small business, so she isn’t one of those people who might have a textbook-perfect seat and can ride anything but does not understand “What are these insurance bills of which you speak?”

And if you can’t afford to show, you can’t afford to show. Lots of other things you can do with a horse. If you have to move to a cheaper barn, that’s what you do. She won’t be friends with these kids forever anyway.

smokygirl: You want to cut college costs, they’re going to have to go after the colleges and universities. And most professors and staff aren’t going to like hearing that they don’t really deserve their six-figure plus salaries and packages, even if it’s true. Big School is worse than Big Oil and Big Pharma combined because they give very little value for dollar and they have everyone convinced they MUST have their product even when in a high percentage of cases, they actually don’t and would be better off at a trade school or two-year.

[QUOTE=danceronice;5917591]
I was going to say, you want to WORK in horses, go into the racing business. You don’t need to be loaded and you aren’t relying on a very small group of clientele using discretionary income, whose business you’re competing for with a whole lot of more established trainers. (Also, while they might not be glamorous, trainers tend to pay in money, not in “You can have a stall for Poopsie and this apartment over the feed room, and you only have to pay the utilities and for food/stall cleaning for Poopsie.”)

Really, ANY degree right now isn’t very helpful unless it’s in certain specialized engineering and technical/manufacturing fields, where they are crying for qualified applicants. If she wants to get into horses, though, and doesn’t want to go the bootstrap route at the racetrack, get a general business management degree and view it as running a small business, so she isn’t one of those people who might have a textbook-perfect seat and can ride anything but does not understand “What are these insurance bills of which you speak?”

And if you can’t afford to show, you can’t afford to show. Lots of other things you can do with a horse. If you have to move to a cheaper barn, that’s what you do. She won’t be friends with these kids forever anyway.

smokygirl: You want to cut college costs, they’re going to have to go after the colleges and universities. And most professors and staff aren’t going to like hearing that they don’t really deserve their six-figure plus salaries and packages, even if it’s true. Big School is worse than Big Oil and Big Pharma combined because they give very little value for dollar and they have everyone convinced they MUST have their product even when in a high percentage of cases, they actually don’t and would be better off at a trade school or two-year.[/QUOTE]

Oh I know that… actually… I refused to go to (traditional) college (which shocked many) but i did go to trade school. And now, i have no student debt (didn’t ever actually) and some of my class mates from school are still paying… and we’ve been out of high school for 13 years… Or worse, their parents got 2nd mortgages or cashed out retirement funds. And I make decent money. My parents told me, pick a career that people will need. I don’t always like it, but I did it, and it worked. While many of my friends are worried about losing jobs and such, I have fairly high job security.

By far the person having the best time at a show is the amateur. When I see how hard our trainer works I know I would not want to trade places. There is very little glamour in being the trainer. A great job and income is the best way to enjoy horses. Remember the best way to make a little money in horses is to start with alot of money.

There are a few reality checks that everyone faces in life as fulfilling our dreams hits the wall of reality. Making that process a ramp is an important parental job – if you can help her see how tough life often is in the horse business.

Depending on your DDs age, one part is thinking about the life of a college student (if college is one of her goals). Riding in college can be very challenging. Some students can swing college classes and horses, some can’t. Also, the expenses of college typically curtail riding – unless the student works in a barn for free rides. That’s why so many horses for sale are from homes where the kids are leaving for college.

Good luck helping her grapple with her life passion and reality! The sooner she begins to adjust the better – it’s a critical life lesson. And involving her a little in the family budgetary process will show her how to (or how not to!) wisely manage her finances. Living in debt and beyond her means is not the path to independence!

[QUOTE=TheHotSensitiveType;5917532]

Ummm, no. Most of the horse owners I know are barely hanging on as it is, let alone paying for a nutritionist for their horse.[/QUOTE]

They don’t usually work independently, most work for feed and supplement companies, etc.