When you start the driving horse under saddle

I have a question about starting a young horse under saddle who’s already been taught to drive. He had 60 days of driving as a 2 yr. old, 90 days of driving as a 3 yr. old, and he did absolutely fabulous. This is the first horse I’ve ever sent out for driving before starting under saddle. He will be 4 this spring.

I have a B.S. in Animal Science, Horse Production so learned to start horses in the round pen following Ray Hunt principles, move them around, sack them out, saddle them, move them around with the saddle on, let them buck with the saddle on, mount/dismount, ride in the round pen. (Just summarizing here).

That’s all well and good, but I’m thinking maybe I should use a different approach since he’s already come so far with the driving. The driving training was done slow, step-by-step, everything at a walk until well established, so completely different than the round pen approach. Since he’s already used to the harness on, I think the saddle shouldn’t really be a big deal.

Looking for input. TIA :slight_smile:

He is probably ready for riding. A couple of years driving has given him a good basis. A lot of things you do in the round pen has already been done. But go back to the beginning to what he knows and you should be fine.

Good luck

Hey girl!!

Your guy has a great start. Better than my boy had when I started him under saddle. He was broke to drive team at 2yo, had 30+ days and did very well. He continued his show season and breeding season and I left him alone until mid January of his 3yo year and just got on during a lunge lesson w/ tack. I couldn’t help myself, as I’d waited so long for him to come of age (came home as a weaner.) It was not even a planned deal.

He’d be wearing tack (harness and saddle and bridle) for awhile so that wasn’t new to him at all. So he was used to the weight of the harness and things banging on his sides. I’d already taught him how to lunge and voice commands, all the basics he needed for saddle training, just like your boy does. I was lunging him and said, “screw it”, stopped him, climbed on and just sat there w/ this HUGE grin on my face. I would have been happy w/ just sitting on him, but we walked around both ways, backed and I introduced leg pressure to him while keeping w/ the voice commands. I don’t think I trotted that first time w/ him, but I did the second time. I was so proud of him. He’s never put a foot wrong w/ me and has never offered to buck while lunging or u/s. I think I only rode him a few times that winter and then let him be until spring when he started dressage training (when you met him at the horse fair :).) I also started in a western saddle, as I do all of my youngsters. And he went trail riding that summer, too.

I can’t believe my baby is 8 this year!!

Hope you’re well.

Good luck and have fun.

Hey Chickie!!!

Long time no hear!! I know you’ve been through a lot and I guess you moved too? Hope all is working out. Email me at this screen name on AOHell dot com. I’ll send you a pic of my pony. Want to hear what you’re up to. :slight_smile:

I’d be inclined to suggest that you consider just old fashioned classic English Equitation method.

I never ever do anything else and don’t have a round pen and don’t like them and don’t think they serve any useful purpose and can actually have disadvantages.

Neither do I “sack horses out” and for sure I don’t let them go bucking about with a saddle on. In fact the thought fills me with horror! I’ve never yet had a horse buck about because it’s had a saddle on for the first time.

So rather than all that quick fix and nonsense stuff I ensure the horse is confident and handled and familiar with a range of things. Yours is already and has already had harness on so that’s good.

I’d be inclined to saddle him with the girth very loose and take him for a walk wearing that and his riding bridle and riding bit.

Then with no fuss and bother and once he’s very used to that then just lay across his back so he gets used to the weight and take it from there.

If you’re in to books, I’d suggest a good old fashioned English Equitation one which will tell you how horses are brought on slowly and carefully and so they develop confidence by having total trust in their handler/trainer/rider.

I sent you an email. Look forward to hearing from you! :smiley:

[QUOTE=Thomas_1;3793253]
I’d be inclined to suggest that you consider just old fashioned classic English Equitation method.

I never ever do anything else and don’t have a round pen and don’t like them and don’t think they serve any useful purpose and can actually have disadvantages.

Neither do I “sack horses out” and for sure I don’t let them go bucking about with a saddle on. In fact the thought fills me with horror! I’ve never yet had a horse buck about because it’s had a saddle on for the first time.

So rather than all that quick fix and nonsense stuff I ensure the horse is confident and handled and familiar with a range of things. Yours is already and has already had harness on so that’s good.

I’d be inclined to saddle him with the girth very loose and take him for a walk wearing that and his riding bridle and riding bit.

Then with no fuss and bother and once he’s very used to that then just lay across his back so he gets used to the weight and take it from there.

If you’re in to books, I’d suggest a good old fashioned English Equitation one which will tell you how horses are brought on slowly and carefully and so they develop confidence by having total trust in their handler/trainer/rider.[/QUOTE]

I’m glad someone else thought that the methods outlined were heavy “in the cowboy up” line of horse breaking. I kept looking for a gentle way of writing it, because I don’t always have Thomas’ tact (grin).

Jill

[QUOTE=Cielo Azure;3794651]
I’m glad someone else thought that the methods outlined were heavy “in the cowboy up” line of horse breaking. I kept looking for a gentle way of writing it, because I don’t always have Thomas’ tact (grin).

Jill[/QUOTE]

That must be the new me :wink:

I never said “cowboy up” because we actually also have some try to do horses like that here and they’ve never been near the wild west and wouldn’t know a cow unless it was on a plate accompanied with roast potatoes.

Here we call them twits :yes: or useless amatures :yes: :winkgrin:

I watched a video the other week of a twit trying to long rein a horse… he hadn’t got a clue and the horse of course didn’t either… well why would it!? So his solution to smack the horse on the backside with the whip every time it tried to change directions in response to his total lace of competence! The horse was my sort of horse though and wasn’t stupid and had opinions of its own so in the end in total irritation it backed up and gave him both back barrels. It’s good to see justice done. :winkgrin:

Round pens are as rare as rocking horse poo over here - fortunately ! I’ve only ever seen 3 and one of those was at an event I attended where there was a US guy there too showing round penning :eek::confused::no: The other was at this mad place where the owner “trained” in the US. I went there to collect a horse they’d made a total mess of and to give it a fresh start.

Round pens, sacking them out (in the old days and today with some old timers involves hobbling them or throwing them to the ground), throwing a saddle on and bucking them out comes from western cattle ranch ways of having to bring in a herd of horses that has mostly been running wild in a giant pasture all summer and getting enough “broke enough” to ride to do the fall round up. They brought horses from unbroke to sort of broke in a week or so and cowboys had a string of horses to rotate, not all of there horses were greenies, they could ride the greenie for a few hours of just pushing cows and switch over to their more experienced horse to do other work that required more skill. Many western trainers and some other trainers still like to train horses this way. I am firmly in the camp that does not (and I have worked for trainer who do use these methods when I was younger, so I do know what they are all about).

If your horse has already been trained to drive you don’t need to go through all of this. Saddle it, lunge it with the saddle on (don’t let the horse buck, for one it should hardly want to, for two any horse IMO and esepcially a driving horse should not pull out the bucking card as a reaction to a new thing, make it clear from step one that bucking is never okay), onec the horse is comfortable mount it in a sensible way with the help of an assistant (don’t just hop on, pull ont the stirrups from the ground, put some weight in them from the ground with your hands, put a foot in like you are mounting and hop up and down, lay across the saddle, throw a leg over, sit up, take a week to get to sitting up in the saddle if the horse needs it- slow and steady with no set backs makes for a confident horse).

Backing our stallion

We backed one of our stallions in the (freezing) weather this week, and I am taking video clips of him for another reason. So, I put it all together and made a video essay of what we do (roughly, each horse really is different). He has been ground driven/long lined (and short lines), but has not been hooked yet to a cart. But you can see when he gets backed how all those lessons make the first ride so easy. I hope this helps!

All video of him being ridden is on his first day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-AnrOgEmd8

I am having a lot of fun playing movie maker! I only wish I had figured out how to do it years ago instead on in 2009! So, pardon the amateur nature of the video, I am still in learning mode.

Jill

Jill, What you do is pretty much the same as what I do. The horse you’ve shown looks a very nice willing sort and looks desperately eager to learn and to please. That all comes with careful and considered preparation and it’s how it should be always IMO. It’s obvious that’s the case with your horse. That sort of behaviour and willingness does not IMO come from being sent like a whirling dervish round a pen bucking and frightened till the horse realises maybe it’s not to be terrified or hurt. Seems we both prefer to miss that stage and have the horse know it won’t and be willing to please.

So what I was trying to say earlier was that if a horse has been properly prepared and effectively trained then there should be absolutely nothing for it to fear or be concerned about. He should be used to being handled, well mannered and attentive to what you ask and your personal space etc. He should also have experienced traffic and everyday hazards when under long reins. The only thing he won’t have experienced is the rider.

The bit you didn’t show was first time the rider gets on board.

Once the horse has got very used to carrying equipment (saddle etc) and is responding well to commands then I move on to the next stage. So he’ll be doing stops, starts and transitions and changing rein under long lines with his tack on.

Then sometimes it’s in a stable and mostly outside in the arena. Depends on horse/rider/how I’m feeling in relation to the first 2! (Don’t forget though I often do/redo horses that weren’t done right in the first place!)

But after the horse has been longreined with tack and reminded about stop and go and turn. For a horse to be backed for the first time I use a neckstrap mostly (or breastplate that day) and ensure the girth is tightened to take the weight of rider and stirrups right length before anything else. When the horse is long reined the stirrups are tied down with baler band. Only if the schooling session has gone well do I proceed… same with all stages… I don’t progress on until the horse has “got it”. Particularly with the actual backing though, it’s important the horse is accepting of everything that’s happening that day and relaxed and confident and listening.

Then with an assister on the ground and someone to get on. IMO the assister is in many ways the important person for the horse to focus on and to give him reassurance. But most often if the rider is lightweight, confident, fit and balanced it doesn’t matter because the horse will then mostly be aware of the rider and the unusual weight on his back and not particularly care about the person.

Nowadays I am normally the person on the ground and use one of my staff who is little and light weight. So they either use a mounting block or more often get a leg up and first lie on their stomach over the saddle, then eventually stretching out hands to touch the horses opposite side and then to progress to make a big thing of this so he knows a person can “appear” on both sides of him. The rider will talk to him all the time so he knows it’s the rider and not a mountain lion lept on his back! This legging up and lying over would be repeated several times and from both sides. If I’m holding the horse and reassuring when this happens then it’s only VERY VERY lightly - no tension, no restraint. The horse can do what he wants but it’s important that he listens and behaves because he wants to.

Then once he’s accepted the rider lying over and moving and patting both sides she’ll swing her leg over his hindquarters very carefully and sit astride keeping most of the weight of the back and upper body low at first. If the horse is happy and confident, the rider will drop more weight into the saddle and work herself to an upright position talking all the time and stroking the horses’s neck and shoulder on both sides. Once upright for a few minutes, then dismount and repeat over and over again. We don’t slide off. We dismount properly and pretty positively so the horse learns that’s how it happens. Sometimes the dismount actually is of concern as the weight suddenly disappears. Indeed we never go about the horse quietly when this happens. He has to be used to fuss and clatter and stuff happening and know nothing bad will happen to him so there’s nothing to worry about. All this preparation helps for later on.

The move off stage can be confusing for the horse because it’s unbalanced with weight on for the first time so we do that with no contact at all on the reins and with a handler in charge of speed and steering and rider with weight slightly forward and hand through the neck strap for a few steps till the horse gets used to that. The horse may rush on a bit and I just make soothing noises till it relaxes and then stands still and we repeat the whole process again.

Once that we then introduce hand and leg and with the voice commands the horse already knows (from extensive long reining). So he knows that leg means go and hand means slow and then that’s the job done… no bucking… no trauma and no spoilt horse

This is from a pretty good series of training vids from one of our best ASB trainers, showing a filly being backed for the first time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNzJBveRa0U

Thought that was a really good video. Thanks WA

[QUOTE=Griffyn;3811718]
Thought that was a really good video. Thanks WA[/QUOTE]

No prob!! :slight_smile:

If I’d known that existed, then I wouldn’t have needed to bother posting my detailed description :wink:

Mind you I don’t do it with an American accent and my “worthy assistant” is most definately a heck of a lot prettier and decades younger than Keith :winkgrin: I must say I felt sorry for the poor guy still at that job at his time of life