not at a horse farm. But like i said, in several other realms…
I think my problem would come-with any sort of me-too stuff. The actual labor of it, not a problem…especially if i valued the instruction. I have PAID for some pretty darn abusive mean instructors in my life, and my feelings are not easily bruised. So there’s that too…
@eightpondfarm: you have at least one ally here.
When I was young, I had a paid position at a farm where I did manual labor in the morning (mostly stall cleaning) and then I rode all afternoon. It was a very nice position and got treated very well.
I would offer the same sorts of things these days at a good hourly rate, but very few people are willing to do even 2-3 hours of work in exchange for working with/riding very nice horses. Like you mentioned in your post, very few people seem to want to do the physical work, even small amounts of it at a decent wage.
I “put in my dues” as a young person by working hard and getting paid and then a year or so later, got increasing amounts of responsibility, opportunitiies to train, etc. and it served me very well later in life.
A friend who is a top pro has exceptional opportunities at their farm, but very few people are willing to do the physical work in exchange for the great opportunities. When I asked them what was going on they replied that a lot of the younger people seem to want things to be easy, they want to be on the FEI horses right away, they want the riding opportunities, but not have to do the work that precedes it.
I’ve met young people (in corporate jobs) who think that if they work for X number of years that they should be promoted automatically to the next grade level. What people have tried to explain to them is that promotion isn’t automatic after say the 2 years on the job that they are thinking it should be. It’s about working hard, exceeding expectations, and demonstrating that they can function at that level or beyond in order to justify the promotion.
Yes, this sort of thing is an attitude problem. It’s not just in the horse industry, it’s in other places as well.
@Cat.J95, Our disagreement is about the what paying your dues means. To me, it’s an internship and basically unpaid and work to learn. You call it slave labor, i do not.
I personally have given of myself and my labor to learn-on-the-job. And in a few different realms…
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Lol you clearly didn’t read my post. If you want to just resent young folks and live in ignorance instead of acknowledging our screwed up labor market that’s fine though
I would not call my existence ignorant.
Additionally, I glean from your posts that your experiences are not quite as deep nor as broad as are my own.
There are plenty of farms in my area where the employees are treated very well. So that statement isn’t 100% accurate. It’s not fair to say that “our entire society”…
100% this.
Also people who don’t have kids and apparently spend no time with youth should avoid making sweeping generalizations about them all being lazy or addicted to social media.
I know tons of young people who are competitive athletes and dancers, or who work in physically demanding jobs such as construction, landscaping, warehousing, or farming. They are not averse to hard physical work at all. They are, universally, averse to being treated as disposable, demeaned, underpaid and under appreciated. Employers who consistently have trouble keeping staff perhaps need to honestly evaluate what they are like to work for, and what the atmosphere they provide is like.
To be clear - this is not directed at the OP. She is the real deal, had an excellent reputation and is offering a very attractive opportunity for the right person.
If I could afford it I would quit my job and work for the OP. Alas 
I was treated extremely well at the majority of farms where I was paid, with only a few exceptions. After some bad experiences as a teen, I learned how to vet employers quickly.
Yet I still had to work most holidays.
I still had no PTO or sick leave.
I still was expected to work more than 5 days a week in any full time situation.
In full time situations, most of my days were longer than 8 hours.
In the mid 00s, farms were starting to offer benefits like health insurance and retirement, but it was very rudimentary and expensive.
My wages were barely liveable. They definitely weren’t enough to support my own horses, so I had to work off board, lessons, etc. Unexpected vet bills were financially devestating. I couldn’t afford entry fees for shows, which was probably a blessing because getting a weekend day off to attend a show took a small miracle.
Even if you take away the horse ownership part of the equation, farm work in that manner makes 21st century life really difficult.
And these were paying positions!
Horses are a 7 day a week gig. But with rising costs and changing cultural norms, we are going to have to get inventive in how we are able to keep employees. Too many trainers have become reliant on unpaid working student positions to shoulder the financial burden, but that doesn’t solve the problem. If anything, it has worsened it.
ETA: I also really hate the argument that if people loved it, then none of the above would matter. It’s Christmas Day and I’m posting this while I’m waiting for water troughs to fill. But they are my own water troughs, which I can afford on my own farm because I have a job that pays me a liveable wage. It’s not the labor I ever minded. It was working my life away for someone else without the possibility of fulfilling my own goals and dreams.
Most horse industry/“ag” jobs are still illegal (hence exploitive) in one way or another 🤷. I would love these to be real jobs with real regulations and restrictions. But the industry does not want this.
I disagree with you and I am not young; in fact, I am well over 60.
yeah but you always disagree with me. So there is that.
Ridiculous to discount my opinion on one subject because of some paranoid fantasy in your head.
I think the thing that business owners forget (all types of business owners) is motivation: their business is their passion and they are hugely invested, financially and emotionally in making it work. Their employees are not invested in any way. They must take a look at the cold hard facts of hours of work, money available, and compare it to other jobs they can get so they can pay their bills. They just haven’t sunk hundreds of thousands of dollars into a property, and they have nothing to lose if it fails.
Younger people right now are making far less than the generations before them. They’re coming out of school with huge debts. They can’t afford to take a relatively low paid job very often. And they probably know that they can ride far more if they get a highly paid job in another field to pay for horses eventually.
After 10 years doing weekend and summer working student work through school myself I wanted to ride full time. Well, I can tell you right now if I had done that I’d be physically trashed now, and perhaps unable to afford owning homes and horses and competing here in the USA as well as having a retirement fund and health insurance. We all know of the local trainer or shoer whose horse-related accident was a financial disaster for them.
I think that in most circumstances that if the labour weren’t cheap, most people could not afford board. Sadly. It shouldn’t be that way, but it is. Also, many barn owners use boarding to “subsidize” keeping of their own horses. That doesn’t work too well either. They get soured, finding themselves working more on other people’s horses than riding their own.
However, it becomes deplorable when the “elite of the sport” exploit their workers when they can afford not to. Thinking of someone else, not the OP… and they winter in Florida.
It is also unfair and not 100% accurate to condemn all young people for being lazy, averse to physical labor, and reliant on instant gratification.
Grey
If I remember correctly, you are retired. You have your own farm. So I’m assuming you have money saved up and not concerned about not being able to pay the next bill. You work for yourself, up to your standards. It’s different for a working student if they are working unpaid 10-12 hour days 6 days a week, while thinking “how can I pay my bills this month? Will I even be able to afford a house in 10 years time with the path that I am taking? Is it worth getting kicked and hurt and burnt out only to live paycheck to paycheck down the line? How can I afford seeing the doctor after hurting my back, can I even afford the days off?”
If I were younger, I would have loved for the opportunity OP has posted.
There will always be people who want to be on FEI horses on day one, that their demands don’t match up with the job. That happens in many industries.
Promotions aren’t necessarily about working hard. Depending on the industry, it’s about spending time networking and schmoozing up the ladder. Some that work hard are taken advantage of, but the ones that spend their time appearing to work and kissing butt get promotions. Sometimes it’s just luck and being in the right place at the right time. Also, younger people may be more interested in positions in the tech industry (6 figures starting pay for some positions. PAID internships) or other positions in the corporate world. Different bs, but higher pay, health insurance, staying indoors in crappy weather, 5 day work week, more opportunities in general.
This. 1,000%. And I think unlike some other businesses, many horse people don’t crunch the numbers with what other businesses are offering workers with the similar level of skill are offering. (To say nothing of the fact, they might have been out of the hourly wage market for some time, and have what they were paid stuck in their head as the norm from years ago.)
If you own your own business or maintain your own property, yes, you’re going to be working more than a standard job, but it’s yours, and you’re reaping the sweat equity. The hourly laborer doesn’t get the same benefits. I think sometimes, too, in the horse industry, people are so emotionally invested in their animal and their property (which I understand, to some extent), they don’t fully “get” that for the people they are employing it is ultimately just a job.
I too have paid trainers and other instructors who belittled me and insulted me, and I regret doing so. I don’t learn in such situations.
I said there are many young people who don’t want to do any type of physical labor regardless of how well they get paid for it.
Many != 100%
You should stop taking my posts out of context.
I cited a specific example about a certain individual’s expectations that are unrealistic.
My post had nothing to do about brown-nosing to work up the corporate ladder. As a site note, not all promotions work that way, and if you are in the corporate sector, you should understand that. Sure, some people brown-nose and don’t work that hard and still get promoted. Some people work hard and don’t get noticed. However, that doesn’t mean that all promotions happen on the basis of brown-nosing.
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