Hello,
I recently have had a couple of inquiries from drivers about my ponies. After attending Live Oak this year, I am excited about the possibility of them going to driving homes. However, I have no idea where drivers find there propsects. Any advice?
Is it all word of mouth or are there certain websites/magazines/etc that drivers use?
TIA
Post them on the CD-L email list.
http://www.carriagedriving.net/index.php?m=c&inc=31
There is also a classifieds section on the American Driving Society website:
http://www.americandrivingsociety.org/
(I dont know how well that one works, but i see stuff listed on it regularly)
I would say the CD-L sells for a lot of people, or at least gets it into some bigger names hands to remember and spread the word to clients and friends later.
The rest i would say sells by word of mouth. It’s REALLY hard to get on equine.com (or any of the other big classified sites) and search for a good driving horse, everyone under the sun puts them as driving prospects or “used to drive but i dont drive, so i have no idea how they go” which means it could have been wrecked and be a driving nightmare and no one would know… Doesnt mean there arent some good ones on there, but that’s been my experience searching to the point that i gave up.
I think a trained driving horse typically doesnt seem to sell for much more than a non-trained one. Sad as that sounds. I see prices all over the scale really, but they tend to compare with what i could buy a quality, registered un-started horse for. It might open up another venue for your ponies, but the hunter market would still get you more $$ i think, though that’s a hard world to break into for getting the higher $$.
I hope you enjoyed LiveOak…it is one of the most prestigeous CDE’s in the country. I was showing an Intermediate Single Pony tho this was not our year to excel.
The pony division is a very tough one with I believe the most competition. But, with the exception of a few top drivers who import from Europe, ,many are driving Morgan, morgan crosses, Welsh cobs or crosses and some Connemaras. I do not believe that most lower level drivers go out looking for $20,000+ dressage type movers with good brains but not yet trained to drive. They probably start out with an inexpensive pony showing training and then work their way up the ranks if they can afford it and if their pony ends up having talent. CD’s are a 3 phase sport and a pony not only has to be a dressage mover, but have the heart and stamina for marathon, and come back to dressage for cones.
Driving is tricky…not all horses want to be hitched. I just gave away a DHH cross to a riding home who tried to kill me in the carriage by wanting to be a bucking bronc. A driving pony is not worth nearly as much as what you can get for a dressage or hunter/jumper prospect.
I love Burberry (sp?). You could take up driving yourself and join the rest of us who are having a blast. 
I think the biggest thing you will find is that pony drivers are cheap. You can buy a pony that has been to and done well at a worlds for less than 30k.
If you can find any for sale. Most drivers are very attached to their ponies. I think it is somewhat different than other disciplines.
You won’t find one because you need to evaluate each individual horse, not make broad generalizations by breed. If you are interested in a specific discipline, there may be certain breeds that tend to do better at it, but there are lots of exceptions.
I don’t have any idea about this but i think its an difficult task.
Thanks everyone for thier feedback. I did enjoy Live Oak very much and have a second driver from there today coming to see the ponies. I have noticed some drivers with imported ponies…considering the high costs of importation and the Euro…I thought perhaps the “cheap” trend was changing.
Do drivers very often look at young stock? If so, that is a much cheaper way to go for a more expensive pony before the breeder sinks thousands into training. Would they look at certain websites for prospects?
Thanks again for your help and honesty, lol.
Just like riders, a lot of drivers look for already trained ponies, already doing the sport they want to participate in. Perhaps working with some of the upper level trainers would be a place to start.
Some also know the breed/line and look for breeders of those, though you do not hear as much about people buying youngstock and training it up. For this group you may want to get one of your ponies out there showing what it can do OR market them by association with already successful ponies.
That said, most of us are not paying the kinds of prices hunter stock can bring. It has been my impression anyway that more of us are doing this on a mental, if not actual, shoestring.
(other half of DNJ here)
All comments above are basically true
BUT there is a new spin in the mix
People driving ponies who really are looking toward the advanced level and with FEI aspirations, particularly for going for the world championships, ARE looking for the German Riding Pony/Sport Pony look and way of going.
As of now it is the direction that part of the sport tends to be going.
So people will be on the search for that type pony
It has not been the trend for most of the upper level driver to buy young stock and train up, but that may change OR you may get some trainers looking to start some young ponies and sell a trained product ready to move on
You have not seen many of the GRP breeders market to drivers but there are a couple of stallion owners in the midwest that are known to produce good driving animals
best of luck to you
[QUOTE=Drive NJ;5520357]
It has been my impression anyway that more of us are doing this on a mental, if not actual, shoestring.[/QUOTE]
This! By no means are we lower income, but having been low income for 9yrs of our marriage, that’s tough to break the saving habit, especially in this economy and not knowing year to year if we still have a contract or not. But i cant justify spending so much on a pony when i can get a cheaper one trained that can do the job. And truth be told, i sent my mini to a trainer and trained my welsh myself. Would i start another youngster? Yes, i probably would. But i’m also in the “younger” bracket at 30, i have a bad knee, but i’m not really facing any other physical issues that the typical middle age market is when buying unstarted ponies. BUT most people in the younger bracket really are on a shoe string budget, it’s not just the expense of the horse, but the $1000 harness, the $6-10k marathon carriage, the $30k trailer to fit it all, the $30k truck to pull it all, lessons, etc… That isnt easy for the average $30-40k a year income family that most likely has $50k in student loans to repay too and probably has a kid or two. Thus, that’s a hard market to convince to spend 5-10k on a baby that may or may not want to be a driving pony.
I think those that are importing or buying “designer breeds” (thinking friesians, warmbloods, and the like) are your pros and really rich people that practically leave their horses with the pros. That’s a pretty small market. Probably easier attained by sending a pony or two to a big name trainer as mentioned.
I love your voyager filly, the dressage rider in me drools over her, wish you had recent photos/videos of your younger stock, that too would help you. I get really turned off shopping when i’m looking at baby pics of a now 2yr old. I also get turned off when i dont know the actual price. For those lower income families, there is a HUGE difference in a 3k baby and a $9999 baby… I dont even see the point in making contact and possibly wasting someone’s time when they do the whole A-B-C-D-E price bracket stuff. Personal opinion there, but i know a lot of other people that think the same way. I also think your website is a bit confusing, would be nice to have the pics on your sale page link to a page with more photos/video of the foal, not have to swap back and forth between the sales page and the photo/video page trying to remember the name of the horse you want to look at. Not that you asked for website opinions, but you got them anyway… 
I’ve always loved your breeding program, you really produce some nice ponies. I think you are just hitting the rut most all breeders are in the present economy. There doesnt seem to be a “lower” market right now for the $5-30k horse, it’s such a small bracket of people that can afford that to be near non-existent in any discipline. I have a lot of warmblood breeder friends and they are having the same issues, people who have 5 generations of breeding and REALLY nice broke horses with show records who work with big name trainers, they are struggling too. You’ve got rich people in the 30k plus bracket that are still buying and everyone else buying under 5k it seems. Tough times.
Hunter market is still where the money is, BUT, you have to remember that in the hunter pony market the only thing that sells is FANCY and well broke to pack a 7yr old with auto changes. You can find that in the grade pony in your back yard. So pedigrees, papers, inspections, imported, it really doesnt matter. In my late teens/early 20s i did pony hunter resales. I would literally go to an auction, spend $200 on a pony, put 30 days on it and get some video of a kid riding it, sell it for 2-4k to the east coast trainers, they would put 30 days on it, and sell it for $30k plus. Sometimes i would have papers on a pony (this was the midwest so i would pick up a lot of POAs, though i only bought solid colors, preferably with white socks and flashy mini TB type looks) but several times i had no papers and still brought the same prices. I flipped a few ponies like this 3yrs ago when i needed some money, same thing, the market hadnt changed then either, fancy and dead broke with auto changes pulls the big money, BUT you HAVE to have GOOD video with a kid riding it. Me on a pony, i could never sell the thing, same pony with a kid on it, sold in less than a week. Not just any kid, it needs to be a SMALL kid, under 10 preferably with cute pigtail braids, if it’s not a real solid pony yet, find a REALLY good little rider to make the pony shine anyway. Works every time. I had several kids that loved to catch ride, especially because i paid them :lol:, so that made it easier.
If you keep your half-welsh foals registered as half-welsh, you might have luck selling to the welsh market, though it’s dropped some too, the welshpony.org website seems to sell the good ones fast, but you have to put a price on them, the “please call for price” adds i see on there forever.
Aside from the CD-L and the American Driving Society websites, i dont believe there are any driving specific websites to advertise on. You might have a local driving club with a website that has a classified section, IF they keep up with their websites, seems to be a common problem with local clubs.
Sorry for the novel.
Very good postings from everyone. I have a DHH cross mare that I am driving and thinking of breeding (in my weak moments) but at my age (68) I am better off staying with the one I have that I am competing and having fun with. I love babies, especially fillies, but not a feasible option at this point in my life. I still look at Burberry and Oliver Twist longingly.
Thanks everyone for thier input. The above quote is what another driver told me. Does anyone have any feedback to WHO these people with FEI/World inspirations or top trainers would be?
I’ll be honest, I have never really tried to market to drivers before because of all the things you told me in the above quotes. As a breeder, you do at least have to break even, lol. However, I do think I have several ponies that would be talented in this sport. In this market, I would like to appeal to all applicable markets for my ponies.
However, the good news is I have my third driver this week coming to see ponies;) So that is a step in the right direction
just my opinion, but you probably had most of the pony drivers going world level at teh Live Oak show
Also if some are looking, then word WILL get around if they like what they see, and that can be a very good thing for you
I dont personally know a lot of these drivers anymore
Driving Ponies
I like the post about non-pro owners not paying as much for a pony as someone else would pay for their home; however, I must add this bit of info:
I bought my pony–who drives–from a horse dealer. The pony knew nothing–not even how to wear flyspray or take a shower(get hosed down). I was an experienced groom, but a totally green driver with a totally green pony. He had no papers–in fact, the papers he did have were kind of strange (from different states, could have been any horse, even the age and markings were wrong). Will we go to some top level? Eh…I won’t be slain as Caesar for my ambition in that direction.
The point is that non-pros hold up every aspect of the horse sport–except maybe racing. We do it for love.
Breeders are trying to fund their lives from making more horses, and the days of nondedicated people having horses are past us, mostly.
The same is true of competitions–many of the folks at Live Oak(I love to volunteer each year) drive their own, and they do it for love. There are also a few people who don’t have to work for a living and they are sort of professional hobbyists, in that they are not funding their lives from their horses, mostly. Then, there are trainers who drive client’s horses. These are all on the go-list with equal footing( wet grass not withstanding).
If you have a couple of ponies who would make good driving ponies–cool. I hope they find forever homes.
I would hesitate to see breeding driving ponies as an untapped market that’s going to fund the new roof for your house, and every kid related to you with a free pass to Harvard.
OP: LOVE your ponies. Wish I was in the market for one; Used to drive but have since moved on to dressage (less stuff for a single person to get around…) Don’t have any additional sales thoughts for you, however. Good luck; I love that little filly by Chardonnay…
[QUOTE=xsuzi;5527737]
The point is that non-pros hold up every aspect of the horse sport–except maybe racing. We do it for love.
Breeders are trying to fund their lives from making more horses, and the days of non-dedicated people having horses are past us, mostly.
.[/QUOTE]
well I would disagree there…there are still flooded rescues and horses being turned loose in the public lands…so the purge is not yet over with…maybe 3 more years and things can stabilize a little more
but most serious driving people (like anyone else) go to reliable sources for their animals.
Getting an animal that leaves a bad taste in your mouth for $400,$4000 or $40,000 is going to have the same result in that you will not shop there again and you will tell everyone else (at least privately) not to shop there.
My AZ friend and I had this same conversation from the opposite end…do we breed babies and send them out as weanlings/yearlings and hope they are not ruined or do we keep them til3/4 yos and then hope they are not ruined ???
the theme being the horsemen are dying,the people who can fiddle with baby colts is less than the ones that can manage green horses and the ones that can manage green horses are less again than the ones that can handle fully broke horses…
the pie chart slices grow ever ever smaller.
Tamara
[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;5566752]
My AZ friend and I had this same conversation from the opposite end…do we breed babies and send them out as weanlings/yearlings and hope they are not ruined or do we keep them til3/4 yos and then hope they are not ruined ???
the theme being the horsemen are dying,the people who can fiddle with baby colts is less than the ones that can manage green horses and the ones that can manage green horses are less again than the ones that can handle fully broke horses…
the pie chart slices grow ever ever smaller.
Tamara[/QUOTE]
Have to agree with you on that, actual Horsemen/women are a dying breed, with very few, skilled younger people coming in to replace them… The folks we see horse shopping are totally scary in that “They don’t know how MUCH they don’t know!” They don’t ask the important questions, have no kind of pre-planning in their looking at new animals to purchase. No judgement skills to decide beyond COLOR and cute faces. Can’t tell if the animal is moving sound or off, brains are loose! And usually have even LESS in riding skills. You ask BASIC information questions to see if you can understand their horse needs, but they have no clue what you are talking about. They travel in groups, no confidence in making any kind of decision themselves.
We very seldom have a horse to sell and I am very glad for that. Getting lookers thru a ride or exam with an animal is frightening. I have cut the ride short, pulled them off and FLAT OUT told them that this WAS NOT the horse for them. Hard when we get few lookers anyway in our out-of-the-way location to begin with. “Everyone KNOWS there isn’t much in the way of Sporthorses in Michigan, way to far to go look”. This is even with good comments on videos of horse, just too far. We breed any foals for our own use, they only get sold if they don’t work for our Driving at 4-5 yrs old. Selling is always a long, drawn out process, usually takes a year or so.
I would cut my throat before going into a breeding program to sell foals or young horses. I could not bear to sell them to folks I knew would ruin them. There is almost no one who could turn them into a decent riding animal around here. Between using the formula method (one idea fits all equines) or the mis-understood, mis-used NH methods, the young horses around here have their brains fried pretty quick. LOTS of mental issues created, very hard to redo then. They have never been worked by a SKILLED handler.
We will have to make some kind of “Last Horseman Standing” award for the future. Then the winner can drink it when they give up handling and the weenies take over the horse training world with all the “theories” of how to do it best.
