Where do I go from here- Shih Tzu with BAD skin issues

[TBROCKS]

We’ve had this little dog for 3 years. The backstory is he was living with a little old lady in Florida, the friend of a friend’s grandmother, and she had a terminal illness, so Max had to be rehomed, and we adopted him.

Max has the worst skin problems I’ve ever seen. It didn’t start with us, as he came with a tube of medicine for his skin and he had issues from day one, but things are really bad now.
He chews and scratches himself raw, and it never ends. His skin is always red, he’s always either getting over a hot spot or brewing one, and his coat never looks good.

The only things that have helped, and only minimally: I’ve shaved him down close, and put a little coat on him. Sometimes this helps for a short period but he’ll still lick, chew and scratch the parts of his skin he can get to. Melasab shampoo seems to help the situation, short term only.

I’m at the point now where I just don’t know what to do for him. To date we’ve tried:

1. Different foods, different diets. Hypoallergenic dog food from the vet, raw food, home made food. Non-plastic bowls. No difference.

2. Mail order shampoo and coat supplements that were guaranteed to improve his skin. They didn’t.

3. Multiple, MULTIPLE trips to the vet. He’s been on and off steroids the whole time we’ve had him, as well as antibiotics. I even got some steroids and started giving them to him every day, even though the vet strongly advised against it, along with allergy medication. No improvement. The steroids decreased the scratching for a short period, but then he’s right back at it.

4. He’s treated for fleas. He’s an inside dog, but at some point he has to go out and do his business. He doesn’t spend any time outside hanging around, he’s out and then right back in. He doesn’t even like to be outside. FWIW, we also have 2 in and out cats, along with 3 barn kitties, and a hound who comes in and out. All the animals get treated monthly for fleas and no one has any signs of flea infestation. DH sprays the yard, as well. I’ve tried every flea topical and flea collar and flea bath product out there, along with Capstar, high dollar, low dollar, and everything in between. Despite the diligance with flea control, every so often he’ll pick up a flea, and the madness with the frantic scratching etc. ramps up to unbearable level, because if he gets one. flea. on him, it’s like you torched him with a match. His normal scratching and chewing ramps up and then he starts tearing his hair out.

I feel horrible over this situation. I can’t seem to find anything that helps. What have I missed?

[Marshfield]

Ask for a referral to a veterinary dermatologist

[jherold]

Also check into food allergies. Consider feeding him a raw diet. (Google “Bones and Raw Food Diet for Dogs”). The Vet who started it did so to treat extreme allergies. Steriods are just treating the symptoms, not the cause.

[Kat_the_Horse]

Our shih tzu mix came with skin problems, and after nearly pulling out MY hair in frustration, I started her on one meal a day of near-raw chicken, 2nd meal of high-quality (merrik) grain free kibble and daily dose of DinoVite meal supplement. We used the Lik-o-Chops too on her kibble. Cleared her skin, stopped her incessant licking and scratching, and did everything the website said it would do.

I was really pleased. She was a good dog.

Wanted to add that we now have all of our dogs, including both of our Australian Shepherds on the same diet. We were given the puppy (Sheila) by our sonIL and then the older female who is Sheila’s mom (Bebe). Bebe came to us with the usual farm dog/nursing bitch problems: thin as a rake from working spring cows and weaning off a litter of pups.

SIL said he wanted to put Bebe in our ‘Fat Camp’. We have no ‘thin’ animals, so I guess he figured Bebe could only benefit from time spent with us. We didn’t disappoint! Bebe is now a solid, healthy weight, with LOTS of energy to play and run with her daughter. Her coat is beautiful. I love brushing her, and the burrs and wee stickums that result from being in our fields just slide out with a bit of teasing with a poodle comb.

SIL hasn’t offered to take her back home, but does stop by to use her to work cattle several times a month. He told us he had offered her the ‘usual’ kibble he feeds the rest of his dogs one afternoon, to which Bebe shot him a disgusted look and went to lay beside his truck. She was ready to return to ‘home’ if that was the best he could do (I’m supposing).

Again, we feed our dogs barely cooked chicken (totally raw inside) with the DinoVite mixed into the ‘gravy’ resulting from lightly boiling the chicken on the stove for 10 minutes, done 4-5 pounds at a time. The Aussies get an additional feeding of grain-free kibble (Merrick Whole Earth Farms Chicken & Turkey) drizzled with the Lik-o-Chops fat supplement which they love.

I guess this sounds like a commercial endorsement for DinoVite, but we have used it for nearly 4 years and I’m really happy with the results.

[Foxtrot_s]

We had a daschund who got hot spots from fleas. I soaped him with Betadine shampoo, waited, rinsed well, and then a week later did it again, and just to be sure did it a week later.

The fleas leave a little parasite under the skin from their saliva which hatch and itch…something like that…not a vet.

He was fine after.

Our white Bull Terrier OTOH is a nightmare. He is on prednisone now, for better or worse, his quality of life is better. He gets one pill one day, two the next and that holds him. His skin is growing over, hair returning.

It has to be miserable to itch like that.

[VFT]

Could be systemic candidiasis read about it here:
http://www.nzymes.com/articles/answers_and_help_for_dog_allergies_or_dog_skin_allergies.htm

[Horsegal984]

OP I’m so sorry for you and little pups misery! I second the dermatologist. They can do allergy testing for things like environmental and help develop and allergy serum that helps to desensitize him to allergens. They can also do more advanced diagnostics (assuming that your vet has done skin scrapings and tape preps already to look for yeast/mites).

In the mean time I would make sure pup is on fish oil supplement, it’s cheap and easy and can do wonders for skin (and joints and brain too!)

[TBROCKS]

@Kat the Horse;7826693

Our shih tzu mix came with skin problems, and after nearly pulling out MY hair in frustration, I started her on one meal a day of near-raw chicken, 2nd meal of high-quality (merrik) grain free kibble and daily dose of DinoVite meal supplement. We used the Lik-o-Chops too on her kibble. Cleared her skin, stopped her incessant licking and scratching, and did everything the website said it would do.

We bought the Din O Vite stuff- the powder and some stuff that you’d squirt on the food, and the Dog O Suds shampoo. I was hoping for a minor miracle but sadly it didn’t make a bit of difference. Glad it does work for some though.
Going to check out systemic candiasis, thanks VFT for that link.
Thank you all for the replies so far, much appreciated.

[tweeter]

We had a foster pug (ok, so we kept him forever) that had the worse skin I’ve ever seen. Almost no hair, just yellow scabby things that he scratched and dug at constantly. Along with the meds, our vet had us give him baths in Selsun Blue shampoo. Put it on, left it for 10 min, rinse off. I did this every other day for a couple of weeks, then went to every 3 or 4 days. I’m not sure what’s in that shampoo, but it worked great! He grew a beautiful shiny coat, and looked great. We switched vets about a year after we got him, and it was his original vet. They couldn’t believe how great he looked. Sadly, we lost him 2 years ago (he was 15), and he still had that beautiful coat.

[VFT]

Here is some more good info on systemic candida yeast in case you want to research it further. http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/systemic_yeast_mini_course.htm

Also I found that the Eqyss microtek spray and shampoo offers a good deal of short term relief from the itching. https://www.smartpakequine.com/eqyss-microtek-healthy-skin-and-coat-system-10971p

[UlysMom]

I’m going to jump in here for a third vote for a veterinary dermatologist. I love my dogs’ vet (I call him their primary care provider, lol) but have had to seek counsel from specialists over the last few years and let me tell you, it makes a world of difference. Just like in human medicine, your primary care physician is probably great for your everyday stuff, but if you have cancer or a really weird rash or something NQR that has your doc stumped, they refer you to the specialist that sees these things on average much more than your normal provider.

My vet had referred my dog to an internal medicine specialist and she then collaborated with a veterinary dermatologist for the issues my dog was having. The two of them saved my dog and brought her back from the brink of a disease that was not typically seen or diagnosed by general vets.

It’s worth it to have a work up done by a dermatological specialist if you have one in your area. I hope you find an answer and your little dog starts feeling better post haste.

[Sswor]

Try feeding raw, local honey. From a hive as close to your home as possible, under 50 miles and the closer the better. It works with allergies. Sounds crazy but it’s working for my dog who scratched and chewed himself raw ever year from August-December. Works for a few of my friend’s dogs too. It’s worth a try. I tried everything like you and everyone else described for years. And some of it worked but it was expensive and rough on the dog (prednisone etc). Started him on the honey on a whim this year and it worked. Go figure. 1 tblsp/day.

[TBROCKS]

Appreciate all these great suggestions and I’m trying all of them. A selsun blue bath and some honey can’t hurt. I looked at the website for the vet school that’s an hour away- not sure what they offer in terms of derm at their small animal clinic but that’s on the list to call tomorrow. Sigh…DH may be waiting a bit for that western saddle he’s been pining for.
So, who can recommend a good COMMERCIAL dog food for the skin issue dog? I believe the posters who are saying “raw” is probably best, but between my horses, chickens, farm chores, full time job and part time job, I don’t even time to cook for my family except on the weekends. I seriously don’t have a single free minute to cook home made dog food. Please don’t make me

[Marshfield]

If you’re going with a commercial diet, I would suggest going on HA from Purina while waiting to see the dermatologist. While not a fan of HA for long-term feeding, it can be useful for ruling in or ruling out food allergies.

[cutter99]

I use grain free food for our shih tzu cross who came to us with some minor skin issues. I did notice if he is fed dog food with grain in it his skin starts with eruptions again. I usually feed 4 Health, which is the Tractor Supply grain free version, or Taste of the Wild.

[wendy]

have you had a diagnosis at all? it sounds like a flea allergy to me, but it could be anything including mange. Without a diagnosis you don’t know what to do. And sometimes once a condition gets going you have to treat for bacterial infections etc. in addition to the cause of the problem in order to stop the whole trainwreck.

unless the dog has a food allergy, changing the diet won’t affect the condition. A raw diet won’t cure a flea allergy or mange.

[ElisLove]

In all honesty, he may always have terrible, itchy, nasty skin. As a groomer I see a ton of dogs come in that have perpetual disgusting skin. The owners bring in shampoo after shampoo to try on them, these are good clients who are good owners who have gone to the vet a million times for the dog’s skin.
Find anything you can to give him relief, but don’t be surprised if it never goes away or even lessen all that much. In fact, as he gets up in years it may get worse.

[Calamber]

[QUOTE=TBROCKS;7826884]
We bought the Din O Vite stuff- the powder and some stuff that you’d squirt on the food, and the Dog O Suds shampoo. I was hoping for a minor miracle but sadly it didn’t make a bit of difference. Glad it does work for some though.
Going to check out systemic candiasis, thanks VFT for that link.
Thank you all for the replies so far, much appreciated.[/QUOTE]

Try the Merrick kibble and the Lik-0-Chops. I use Acana, I have used the Venison and Turkey based meal, my Lab does beautifully on the Pacific Fish.

[TBROCKS]

Thanks all, looking into what TSC carries for grain free food.
ElisLove, that is what I’m finding, what used to just be exacerbations that came and went to varying degrees has now become more chronic.
wendy, he definitely reacts to fleas if we aren’t super diligent about the flea preventatives. However, he can look the same way and not have a flea anywhere on him. He doesn’t have mange. He’s been to the vet tons for his skin, that isn’t what he has.

[Pancakes]

I agree a referral to a veterinary dermatologist is best. Part of the problem in finding a regimen that works for skin issues is compliance and time. Every time you make a change of medication, shampoo, food, whatever, several weeks are needed to see if it really works or not. And having more than one veterinarian, essentially too many cooks in the kitchen, can make it confusing.

https://www.acvd.org/tools/locator/locator.asp?id=16 to find a dermatologist

It sounds like you need to 100% rule out food allergies and I agree with Marshfield that a diet like Purina HA is good to rule that out. That may not be what the dog needs to be on long-term, however. And honestly it doesn’t sound like he has food allergies if he has SUCH a dramatic allergy to fleas.

I like Comfortis for dogs with flea allergies. The problem is that you get this massive skin inflammation in response to the flea bite, and then you get secondary skin infection with bacteria, yeast, etc. Then you have to treat those.

There are many things out there – Apoquel, Atopica, even allergy shots – that can help create less of an immune response IF the dog should happen to have a flea bite. There are many other skin conditions, however, that all look the same, and it’s important to have a qualified professional to LOOK at the dog and say what it is/isn’t.