Where do you hitch and unhitch?

[winfieldfarm]

I just had a client go nuts on me. She came to see her mare get hitched (second time) and driven. Hitched her in the arena with two helpers. Mare is very sane, have done extensive ground and prep for this and all went fantastic.

Then when I drove the mare out the arena gate into my 12 foot, totally clear of stuff aisle exactly 20 feet to unhitch her, the owner went nuts about safety. Adult header standing there waiting to head. sand ring to brushed concrete aisle, no significant lip to catch wheels. Solid wall on left, sliding door stalls on right. NO crap to get caught on!

I have an attached indoor to an H aisle configuration barn. Two entrances to arena, one on each side of H. The cross aisle to the two sides of the barn is 16 wide, double as two horse wash rack. My tack room entrance is on one side of the H, matted cross tie area for multiple horses. All our training horses learn to cross tie and these aisles are where they learn to stand, tie, get groomed, rest, get tacked and untacked. It’s a place they are very familiar with. My carriages are in the back of the barn opposite of the arena. When I need to drive, out comes a carriage and it waits in the aisle less than 60 feet from the arena gate entrance. I tack up, walk the horse through the wash rack to the other side of the H, park them in the aisle facing the arena and hitch up. Upon hitching, we drive straight into the arena and get to work. If I am planning an outdoor drive, same routine, into arena, work a bit then out of arena down aisle and out the back door of the barn to my property.

Owner has never had a driving horse and is frighted that her horse will slip and fall on the concrete or go ape s*** and hurt me while in the aisle. Ironically, the training horses are so acclimated to knowing that the work is done once they go in the aisle (riding and driving) that they are extremely relaxed and comfortable. Shows over, untack me!

Owner is insisting that I do not drive her into the aisle and wants me to at least get out of the cart first before I drive her into the aisle. Uhhh, no… that’s more dangerous in my opin.

So I have to diplomatically explain my position while reaching a compromise that suits the owner.

Do you guys think she’s right? Am I taking my life in my hands? I think of all the various places and tight spots worse than my nice wide aisle that we have to navigate at horse shows and I want all our driving horses to be comfy with that. Am I nuts?

[gothedistance]

While my ponies are dressed in the stable (on crossties), they are put-to just outside the stable doors in the driveway where we have stationed the carriage to sit and wait for them.

When we finish our drive, the ponies are brought to a halt at exactly the same spot they were put-to - just outside the door of the stable - and then the carriage is removed. They are then walked into the stable to be untacked.

At no time does the carriage ever enter the stable…which, incidentally, is wide enough for my car or truck to sit comfortably in the center aisle with room for me to easily move around on either side.

And to answer your question - no, you’re not nuts. But you are dealing with an owner who just doesn’t feel comfortable with what you are doing. So …just do what makes the owner comfortable - unhitch in the arena, and walk the horse sans vehicle into the aisleway to be unharnessed.

[goodhors]

We have a small barn, so the center aisle is used for harnessing, hitching and unhitching, every time.

Aisle is 12’, also cement floored, stalls on both sides. It is what we have, has worked very well for a lot of years. We have used it with a variety of horses, different hitches from single, to Pair, Tandem, Fours.

As mentioned, horses get familiar with the location, being groomed there, starting and ending their sessions there, so they are quiet and calm waiting to go off or when returned for unhitching. We do drive thru the barn without stopping, just because we can! Never had any horses quit at a covered bridge! There is a lip on both ends, horse needs to be able to manage that kind of an unexpected bump in the road or trail, give a bit of extra pull if needed. Bumps happen, get on over it!

Safety IS IMPORTANT, but nothing you could do or set up, is “perfect” or will prevent a freak incident. I think horse needs to be a pretty adaptable to various situations, ACCEPTING of what you ask while working with them, to help him be a better partner. You won’t be able to take your “perfect” setting WITH YOU to activities. He has to be able to stand for harnessing and hitching QUIETLY in those other locations. If he can ONLY get put to in his own barn, he won’t be much fun to use at other driving activities. Having other animals and people moving about, not having “quiet space, perfect setting” is going to freak the owner out, so there won’t be much fun for her out in public.

We actively work at horses being well behaved in other settings than our aisle. They get harnessed on the side of the trailer, led to open places to be hitched with a header, unhitched with a header. They STILL need to stand well, regardless of who is walking by, equines screaming because their friend pony left them.

Is the horse shod or barefoot on the cement? Cement is roughed up a bit for good grip? Any ways to make it safer? You could have road studs put in the shoes, they do give good grip on cement! Pass the costs of the extras on to the owner.

16’ aisle sound WONDERFUL and with NOTHING hanging on the walls, can’t do much better than that. Roofed super highway!

Glad I don’t have to deal with this stuff myself, a big reason we never hung out a training shingle. Owner chose you, probably with good recommends from others. Owner had a chance to view the setup, see you work, ask questions BEFORE they sent you the horse. Probably recently heard or saw of some fruitloop horse who was unaccepting of crossties, that argued and got hurt on a cement floor. Now you have to do damage control.

You might ask what kind of setup she has at home for harnessing and hitching her horse. Will that be “more” safe? Would she WANT to be using a horse that can’t/won’t stand well on cement? Wouldn’t she prefer owning a horse who knows how to walk on cement and various floorings comfortably, quietly, SAFELY? This is because horse is going to have to deal with cement floors SOMETIME during the rest of his life. Even the Vet Clinic will have cement floors most of the time.

Driving horses get more asked of them than any other discipline ever thinks of doing. Horse has to have a brain, be willing and accepting of MANY weird and peculiar things that he will meet unexpectedly in the future, usually with a carriage on behind. He shouldn’t go spastic and his driver can’t either!! This is real life, you try to do things in a reasonable way, be safe, but no one can prepare your setting to stay perfect forever. So get horse to be as Ho-Hum on everything possible, to allow ENJOYMENT of your driving, not total anxiety the whole outing. She needs some relaxation lessons on the side.

[China_Doll]

what was the compromise?

[Mukluk]

At the hitching post.

Sorry, I couldn’t resist:D

[MunchingonHay]

I had a center isle barn and in the middle was breeze way.
/
stalls/___stalls
/
/
the breeze way is represented by the / or the intersection of the barn.
The carriages lived under the over hang either out the back or in the front and we would hitch a four in hand in the breeze way everyday. The isle way itself was very wide, about a 24 feet wide and I have driven up the middle (the length of the barn ) before with a single because it as just easier to take a single up the middle and make the 90* turn at the intersection
So yes, I drove “in/thru” the barn, and with multiplies.

[exie4me]

If she decides to show, she might be glad her horse was exposed to this. Our ponies first show, is their first experience driving on cement aisleways,which is sometimes the only way to get to the showring. It would certainly be a little less stress if they had done it before.

[winfieldfarm]

Thanks for the responses. I knew I wasn’t too far off the mark with my general method. Of course we do vary the routine to make sure a horse will hitch and drive pretty much anywhere I point and shoot. But our general routine is what I described.

To answer the question, this client is quite a bit older than me. She has known my family forever and I since I was born. So there is a bit of a motherly, I’m-still-a-kid thing going on here. She also tends to be very very critical. I can’t do too much right in her eyes, it seems. She has tons and tons of horse experience but very little in the way of driving. She is also a long time steward for many breeds and disciplines so she tends to see a lot of bad, bad, bad stuff.

She bred this filly who is now coming four this year. She doesn’t have a facility and I don’t know if she will follow through showing the horse driving. The mare will be under saddle in the next month or so but we had previously discussed driving to add to the horse’s knowledge base.

Compromise? I’m still deciding whether to stick to my guns or change yet another thing to satisfy my owner. She’s a sweet woman who only wants the best for me but sometimes the criticism gets to me. Can’t I do anything right?

I think of a local (Ohio based) event venue that the warm up ring is so separate from the in gate that you have to navigate a concrete indoor alley with two ninety degree turns in it to get there. And the Columbus fairgrounds has you crossing a good stretch of concrete to get into and out of the coliseum there too. Carriage horses must epitomize the term bombproof. Can’t get that way by driving in a bubble, now can we.

[goodhors]

Will you be doing the saddle work as well? If she has so little respect for your methods, WHY is she having you train her horse?

Might be time for a rate increase. Charge until you like her better. Doesn’t sound like you will satisfy her regardless of what you do. Could be Picky Folks will pay more for things done their way!

Changing what you do may leave holes in the horse’s training, to bite you from behind later on. Perhaps you need to sit together and spell out exactly what she DOESN’T want done with her animal. Ask why not, if you will be keeping it for longer than the month left of driving time. Customer may not always be right in a discipline they don’t know, so you can give thoughtful reasons why horse needs such training for Driving.

And you somehow need to get her to treat you with more respect, old family acquaintance or not. You are the Professional in this relationship, she is PAYING for your time and expertise. If she can’t respect you and choices you make for the horse, this problem will escalate, maybe affect your business if she complains to other horse folks in her big circles.

[Wayside]

[QUOTE=Mukluk;6138412]
At the hitching post.

Sorry, I couldn’t resist:D[/QUOTE]

:lol: That was going to be my answer. But then, I had a huge draft gelding, and we always drove outside, through the fields or down the road for a Sunday drive, an even the shows I went to were outdoor venues, so I never had to worry about the barn/indoor question.

So honestly, the thought of driving into a barn makes me really nervous, but that’s just because it’s so far out of the range of what’s normal for me. It could be the same for her, only it sounds like she has had a lot more years of getting used to doing it her way under her belt.

As with most client issues, decide how far you’re willing to alter your routine (if at all), and then stick to your guns once you decide. You can’t be all things to all people. Either she’ll be okay with it, or she won’t, but I think as long as you’re honest and upfront with her, she should be able to respect your decision.

[Renae]

I always hook and unhook in the arena, no matter where I have worked. One trainer I worked for had a habit of driving into the aisle to unhook and I had a wreck as I was driving a horse he usually worked and it tried to quit on me by cutting down the aisle, cart went up on the wall of the arena and flipped me out. Luckily no one hurt and nothing broke that wasn’t repairable, but I would never make a habit of driving (or riding) into a confined area to end my work session.

[red_mares]

When I started driving my first mare, she was hooked in the aisle, near the end, with the doors CLOSED in front of her. There was no indoor arena, and this was the only place the she couldn’t see daylight. The only way you could get her hooked was in a confined area with no place to go. Gradually she got to where she could be tied outside.

The only time I had a problem with that was at my first show. Little Miss Priss was so wired that she almost literally bouncing off the walls. My father decided to be “show dad” instead of “trainer dad” and almost go smushed against the wall. It was his own stupid fault. I wasn’t where he was & I knew the horse; he didn’t(but knew she was hot/rank) and was told not to. The one day I needed him to be a trainer…

The training barns I’ve been in all hook horses in the aisles. Sometimes they pull them back into the barn to unhook, somethimes they don’t.

[winfieldfarm]

Renae, that’s an interesting point you bring up and one I always consider when training our driving horses. Sometimes I have someone shut the gate after we enter (usually for the green ones) and mostly I leave the gate open. I guess it comes under the calculated risk category. Do you always close a gate to an arena when working any horse (driving or otherwise) or do you leave it open to confirm to the horse that they can go right on by an open gate? Imagine all the times I’m at a show and have to work in arenas with open gates both for warm up or show. It falls under the category of well trained horses go where we point them but at any moment, the communication can break down and an accident can occur. The training dilemia…

[Drive_NJ]

We were in the ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS hitch outside in the open camp

Moved to the current barn - going on 8 years now

BO hitches her pony in the probably 12 foot cement floor aisle WITH tack boxes and buckets and stuff - all pushed to the walls

We first thought she was nuts and still would always hitch Alex just in front of the barn

But while we were first training Cooper it just sort of evolved that we started hitching inside the barn
a) cooler in summer
b) no bugs in summer
c) no mud like the pad in front of the barn

so Cooper was pretty green when he learned to stand and hitch and stand some more

he has even driven back into the barn after a scary incident when he got stung by bees while driving

the barn is his calm place - and once we got used to it - I dont have any real concern that even if he were to hit buckets or something, that it would freak him

I think a lot is your own attitude
AND especially the driving equine’s personality. Our friend/trainer is working on a pony now that - it would be a long time before I would ever consider hitching IN the barn.

Also depends on the set up

there is a fabulous driving oriented barn in central Jersey that has an indoor arena connected to la large covered (I’ll call it shed but its a very large room) with large doors on every side. Stuff is in the square of every corner - stalls, wash stall, carriage storage, atv storage. Thru the middle from each side to side is a 12 foot drive thru. They hitch in there, drive thru in there, drive 90 deg. into the indoor thru there. Very useful space - especially for your comfort in any kind of weather. They do have the drive thru ways rubber matted for traction and to define the area.

Id probably work with your owner and gradually build the confidence into driving the horse how you want it to learn

[Drive_NJ]

Have to say that I learned to never hook/unhook in an aisle and was very uncomfortable when our trainer wanted to do some of the work that way.

Hooking/unhooking is the time things are most likely to go very wrong and I was concerned by the ‘tight’ quarters and the possibility of issues. I also wanted to be sure my horse would hook calmly and quietly outside.

Turns out the aisle works just fine when done right. To some degree it is easier to keep things calm with less input in the aisle (the right aisle). The horses stand quietly for hitching and loading and then some… regularly. They walk out calmly and bounce down the lip from the barn to the ground with confidence. It’s great in the summer or cold windy winter as you are out of the weather for that part of the work.

That said, we do use the aisle in our ‘summer’ barn which has occasional things along the wall. We don’t use the aisle in the winter barn which would lead to the indoor… partly because the carriage lives at the end of the ring and partly because the aisle has more distractions

As WF suggested, we also worked on hitching in the open, in the ring, etc so now all places are OK to hitch

As to accomodating this client… what is the harm in accomodating her wishes in this? I truely appreciated our trainer giving us time to get more comfortable with an unfamiliar practice before telling us we had to do it her way. She may feel this way especially with a young home-bred horse

Also sounded like the driving was kind of your idea (and a good one). Maybe she is just very wary of the whole process and wants to be as sure as she can that the horse doesn’t have a bad experience.

[Chewbacca]

Wow, your owner would probably flip if she saw where I hitch my hackney! LOL.

Sometimes I “free-hitch” him outside. 80% of the time, I hitch him in the barn aisle just because it’s kind of nice to be able to fit him & his cart in there on the cross ties. I always am there alone. They all stand fine to free hitch, but when I do use the barn - it is a 7 foot wide aisle. Yep… 7! And the hub-to hub width of his cart is 5 1/2! Not a lot of room to play around. Plus, there’s a hydrant right near where we hitch, so when we “roll out” we always have to avoid the hydrant.

Usually I lead him (hitched) out of the barn, but sometimes he will be driven out.

I will hitch my mini in the barn sometimes, too, but hey, that’s a mini. Mostly I hitch her outside, and I even hitch the tandem outside. (alone… with no one holding…) lol. Heaven forbid if I ever had a pair, or a 4 in hand!

My QH I never hitch in the barn, because I just can’t manage to get his cart from where it’s stored into the barn, and I’m not sure it would fit anyway.

All of my horses always get unhitched outside, right near the cart storage shed, which is separate from the barn. There’s a grass area in front of the shed, and my horses pretty much know to go park there when they’re done and stand to be unhitched.

Because it’s not conveinent for me to unhitch in the barn, I never do. But if I had your set up, I probably would. Ah, the luxuries of an indoor.

But I agree with some of the others about getting the horse used to different situations. I completely agree with Goodhors about driving horses being asked to do more and accept more than any other discipline, so in my opinion getting them used to different things in a calm situation is ideal. What happens if they are out driving and decide to go through a tunnel, maybe a man made obstacle, very low, tight trees, or something similar? Is the owner going to panic? Or is the horse going to perk up and think “Hey, no problem”.

If the owner is that concerned about problems, it makes me wonder what kind of a driver she’ll end up being - to worry to that extent almost sounds like it is going to cause problems- not prevent them.

[Cielo_Azure]

[QUOTE=winfieldfarm;6138854]
Thanks for the responses. I knew I wasn’t too far off the mark with my general method. Of course we do vary the routine to make sure a horse will hitch and drive pretty much anywhere I point and shoot. But our general routine is what I described.

To answer the question, this client is quite a bit older than me. She has known my family forever and I since I was born. So there is a bit of a motherly, I’m-still-a-kid thing going on here. She also tends to be very very critical. I can’t do too much right in her eyes, it seems. She has tons and tons of horse experience but very little in the way of driving. She is also a long time steward for many breeds and disciplines so she tends to see a lot of bad, bad, bad stuff.

She bred this filly who is now coming four this year. She doesn’t have a facility and I don’t know if she will follow through showing the horse driving. The mare will be under saddle in the next month or so but we had previously discussed driving to add to the horse’s knowledge base.

Compromise? I’m still deciding whether to stick to my guns or change yet another thing to satisfy my owner. She’s a sweet woman who only wants the best for me but sometimes the criticism gets to me. Can’t I do anything right?

I think of a local (Ohio based) event venue that the warm up ring is so separate from the in gate that you have to navigate a concrete indoor alley with two ninety degree turns in it to get there. And the Columbus fairgrounds has you crossing a good stretch of concrete to get into and out of the coliseum there too. Carriage horses must epitomize the term bombproof. Can’t get that way by driving in a bubble, now can we.[/QUOTE]

rrr…
I know exactly what you are going through. People who wish to put the relationship into that of “parent-child” (either way) drive me crazy. Just keep insisting that it is peer-peer.

My heart says to recite your credentials. Remind her that your training and expertise are X, Y, and Z. That you have done this before -and if she would like, she is free to find another trainer and then mean it. If she doesn’t have confidence in you to your face, she certainly isn’t going to be saying nice things about you behind your back! Confront her (nicely) about your experience and your training methods and your rules. Explain why you are doing what you are doing but then let her know that you will continue to train using your methods, not hers. Give her two choices: back down and let you do your job or she will have to find someone else.

The thing about people who box you into parent-child relationship is that they usually then go out into the world and denigrate you using the same language as a parent might. It doesn’t do your reputation any good to have such a person on “your side.”

[China_Doll]

[QUOTE=winfieldfarm;6138854]
Thanks for the responses. I knew I wasn’t too far off the mark with my general method. Of course we do vary the routine to make sure a horse will hitch and drive pretty much anywhere I point and shoot. But our general routine is what I described.

To answer the question, this client is quite a bit older than me. She has known my family forever and I since I was born. So there is a bit of a motherly, I’m-still-a-kid thing going on here. She also tends to be very very critical. I can’t do too much right in her eyes, it seems. She has tons and tons of horse experience but very little in the way of driving. She is also a long time steward for many breeds and disciplines so she tends to see a lot of bad, bad, bad stuff.

She bred this filly who is now coming four this year. She doesn’t have a facility and I don’t know if she will follow through showing the horse driving. The mare will be under saddle in the next month or so but we had previously discussed driving to add to the horse’s knowledge base.

Compromise? I’m still deciding whether to stick to my guns or change yet another thing to satisfy my owner. She’s a sweet woman who only wants the best for me but sometimes the criticism gets to me. Can’t I do anything right?

I think of a local (Ohio based) event venue that the warm up ring is so separate from the in gate that you have to navigate a concrete indoor alley with two ninety degree turns in it to get there. And the Columbus fairgrounds has you crossing a good stretch of concrete to get into and out of the coliseum there too. Carriage horses must epitomize the term bombproof. Can’t get that way by driving in a bubble, now can we.[/QUOTE] If she doesn’t have a facility than she may be worried when she gets home and the horse isn’t in a barn the horse may not stand quietly for hitching so I think she has some valid concerns and the horse should get as much different exposure it can. So I think the horse needs some prep standing out of the barn being hitched and unhitched safely.

[China_Doll]

[QUOTE=winfieldfarm;6139483]
Renae, that’s an interesting point you bring up and one I always consider when training our driving horses. Sometimes I have someone shut the gate after we enter (usually for the green ones) and mostly I leave the gate open. I guess it comes under the calculated risk category. Do you always close a gate to an arena when working any horse (driving or otherwise) or do you leave it open to confirm to the horse that they can go right on by an open gate? Imagine all the times I’m at a show and have to work in arenas with open gates both for warm up or show. It falls under the category of well trained horses go where we point them but at any moment, the communication can break down and an accident can occur. The training dilemia…[/QUOTE]

I leave my gate open as I can’t get out and open and close it myself. When we are done and if the horse tries to exit the gate we work a little longer and it isn’t an issue.

[Renae]

The door or gate to the arena stays open unless someone is working a colt as in most situations I am in there are multiple people riding, driving and long lining horses in the arena I am in. The horse I was driving when I had that incident was a well seasoned, aged horse, we just had a disagreement on how long the training session should be. Had he tried to come in the middle and quit rather than ducking for the barn aisle I doubt the cart would have gotten run up on the wall. But that incident has also made me extra leary when driving in an arena that has the slanted lower section of the wall for the riders!

A strong consideration whenever I am training a horse for a customer is making sure that what I am doing will work for them. Especially when the horse is not a show horse that will remain in professional training long term, but a horse they will take home and be working themselves.