Where has the Appendix gone?

[ClassyJumper]

I’ll admit I am biased, I have a 2001 Appendix that I bought for reasonable money ($5k) 15 years ago, that was really the best horse I could have ever asked for. Just out of curiosity I did a dreamhorse search (I have no idea really where people advertise these days) and all that came up for Appendix was a lot of early 2000’s packers, a few young stock, and some big money AQHA HUS types.

Are people still breeding the Appendix for your local level hunter/low level eventer? My guess is they have been replaced by the OTTB craze? I too purchased a OTTB for my new young horse. My appendix is just a slightly easier keeper physically… but more importantly mentally he is a much easier keeper. I know some of that is just personality but I think that the QH blood has something to do with it also.

Anyways, have you noticed there is less Appendix QH to go around? Is there a particular reason for it? Any breeders out there… or are people mostly breeding them for their own use?

Thanks!

[Redlei44]

Out of “fashion”, combined with the availability of sub-$5k OTTBs, would be my guess. I do not have breeding experience myself, but from everything I’ve learned on this forum and others, American breeders may very well have $5k in a foal before it hits the ground, much less is broke to ride.

[Simkie]

Purpose bred sport horses are now warmbloods, generally. It’s expensive to put a foal on the ground, much less get it to two or three and put a start on it. From a return on investment perspective, warmbloods make more sense for most breeders.

The QH/Appendix breeders I knew of…nearly 30 years ago, wow…are either now out of the game, or breeding warmbloods.

Off the track horses (you can find off the track QHs, which are often appendix) fill that “cheap horse” niche. And it’s awfully hard for breeders to compete in that space.

[JB]

There are a lot of Appendix still bred, but don’t forget that if they get enough ROM points, they get full QH papers, so you don’t “see” them as an Appendix anymore.

[LovieBird]

From what I’ve seen on Facebook, race bred Appendix horses tend to be more expensive than ottbs.

[skydy]

Everyone knows that they have no use and if they become infected they must be surgically removed before they burst.
For god’s sake man, why would anyone want one?

[allons-y]

I think many Appendix ‘types’ are hiding in plain sight, wearing AQHA papers. Several Barrel Racers at my old barn ran these. You could not pick them out of a field of heavier type TBs. These QHs have a lot of ‘blood’ in their pedigrees. For all intents and working purposes, the registered QH is today’s Appendix. Enough time and generations have passed that it is no longer necessary to get an Appendix to get some TB blood and heart in your Quarter Horse.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjO0NCb6dDmAhVihq0KHUbQASEQjhx6BAgBEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalendar.in.gov%2Fsite%2Fhrc%2Fevent%2Findiana-quarter-horse-breeding-program-sees-new-blood-1%2F&psig=AOvVaw0WgVLoEGBhOaH6O_hV97HP&ust=1577364059996745

[ClassyJumper]

@allons-y

I think many Appendix ‘types’ are hiding in plain sight, wearing AQHA papers. Several Barrel Racers at my old barn ran these. You could not pick them out of a field of heavier type TBs. These QHs have a lot of ‘blood’ in their pedigrees. For all intents and working purposes, the registered QH is today’s Appendix. Enough time and generations have passed that it is no longer necessary to get an Appendix to get some TB blood and heart in your Quarter Horse.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjO0NCb6dDmAhVihq0KHUbQASEQjhx6BAgBEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalendar.in.gov%2Fsite%2Fhrc%2Fevent%2Findiana-quarter-horse-breeding-program-sees-new-blood-1%2F&psig=AOvVaw0WgVLoEGBhOaH6O_hV97HP&ust=1577364059996745

I think this may be true but definitely not true in my region. In Oklahoma I would estimate 90% of the registered AQHA are “foundation” or “cow bred”… thats to say shorter than 15H and frankly movement that woulnt fly in the english diciplines. The taller ones do get rejected to be barrel racers.

[sandsarita]

@ClassyJumper

I think this may be true but definitely not true in my region. In Oklahoma I would estimate 90% of the registered AQHA are “foundation” or “cow bred”… thats to say shorter than 15H and frankly movement that woulnt fly in the english diciplines. The taller ones do get rejected to be barrel racers.

Im in Oklahoma as well and breed these hidden in plain sight appendix horses. And that is because aqha has been crossing with tb for a few generations and it is well established in the bloodline. However most of the horses are performers and have earned their open rom so have regular papers. I have one horse I sold recently with regular papers but if you calculated it he was 7/8 tb. There are very few tb mares and stallions being crossed right now on qh. But if you looked in my pasture you would think they were all tb or warm blood. Even the ones with minimal tb have been carefully selected to look very hunt seat like. Hence my 16h 2yo that has minimal tb but still has a ton of growing left looking at her legs

[ClassyJumper]

@sandsarita

Im in Oklahoma as well and breed these hidden in plain sight appendix horses. And that is because aqha has been crossing with tb for a few generations and it is well established in the bloodline. However most of the horses are performers and have earned their open rom so have regular papers. I have one horse I sold recently with regular papers but if you calculated it he was 7/8 tb. There are very few tb mares and stallions being crossed right now on qh. But if you looked in my pasture you would think they were all tb or warm blood. Even the ones with minimal tb have been carefully selected to look very hunt seat like. Hence my 16h 2yo that has minimal tb but still has a ton of growing left looking at her legs

Ah very cool, I am glad someone around here breeds english QHs! I bet they are beautiful (and pricey too) haha. I guess I just miss the appendix horses of 15-20 years ago that were bred to be inexpensive/easy ammy friendly prospects. I understand the economics of it for breeders probably doesn’t work anymore, but I still miss them! In New England where I grew up QHs were what you had if you couldn’t afford a warmblood. A nice moving appendix could keep you competive locally.

[LovieBird]

@ClassyJumper

Ah very cool, I am glad someone around here breeds english QHs! I bet they are beautiful (and pricey too) haha. I guess I just miss the appendix horses of 15-20 years ago that were bred to be inexpensive/easy ammy friendly prospects. I understand the economics of it for breeders probably doesn’t work anymore, but I still miss them! In New England where I grew up QHs were what you had if you couldn’t afford a warmblood. A nice moving appendix could keep you competive locally.

Funny you say that, I have a race bred qh that has been mistaken for a warmblood on several occasions.

[She_s_Pure_Gold]

I can’t speak to the Appendix QHs but I know there are still people breedings paints and TBs, so essentially the same but with color.

My current horse is a reg paint, half TB, (2001 model) and he’s terrific. Perfect size (for me, 15.3), TB athleticism combined with the quiet paint brain. He can sit all winter and I can get on him in the spring and hack him quietly on the buckle. When we enter the start box on xc, the engine revs and he knows his job and would jump the moon if I asked him to.

I sure hope horses like him are still being bred because I will want another for sure when he retires (srill going strong so far!).

[MysticOakRanch]

@ClassyJumper

Ah very cool, I am glad someone around here breeds english QHs! I bet they are beautiful (and pricey too) haha. I guess I just miss the appendix horses of 15-20 years ago that were bred to be inexpensive/easy ammy friendly prospects. I understand the economics of it for breeders probably doesn’t work anymore, but I still miss them! In New England where I grew up QHs were what you had if you couldn’t afford a warmblood. A nice moving appendix could keep you competive locally.

Sadly, the market for “inexpensive ammy friendly horses” is almost non-existent now. First of all, inexpensive now means “costs more to breed and start them, then they sell for” - so anyone who does this is subsidizing the hobbies of those ammies. And very few ammies want a “non-WB” sport horse - even if that is really what they SHOULD be looking for.

One of my friends bought one of those great horses - lower level dressage, trail miles, great brain, dependable horse (and yes, Appendix), and paid $3500 for her. It costs more then $3500 to breed and raise a yearling!

I was breeding nice ammie horses (not Appendix, but nice movers with good brains) - and gave up because the market just died out. People wanted a nice First level horse with show experience for under $10k. That just isn’t economically possible.

The horse market has changed dramatically. Land, hay, vets, training, shows have all gotten much more expensive. The inexpensive ammie horse is almost extinct.

[sherian]

@MysticOakRanch it is a bit of a conundrum for the horse world - you need the low to mid levels to be large for a healthy horse industry, but it costs more to produce horses for this market than the market value will bear, so the producers stop. Where are the horses for this market going to come from in the future?

[anon6796898]

@skydy

Everyone knows that they have no use and if they become infected they must be surgically removed before they burst.
For god’s sake man, why would anyone want one?

Took me a second to get this:D

[skydy]

@anon6796898

Took me a second to get this:D

Sorry. Sometimes I should keep my dorky sense of humor to myself. :o

[MysticOakRanch]

@sherian

@MysticOakRanch it is a bit of a conundrum for the horse world - you need the low to mid levels to be large for a healthy horse industry, but it costs more to produce horses for this market than the market value will bear, so the producers stop. Where are the horses for this market going to come from in the future?

Absolutely. The only horses that will be left are the oldsters that are on their “way out” - and then ammies will find they are buying a horse in its final years (not that that is a bad thing), and have a long term retirement bill INSTEAD of a horse they can re-sell when they are ready for a more advanced horse. OR, instead of having a horse they can grow with for the next 10 or 20 years (many of mine are still with their original owners), they are going to be looking for another oldster in a few years.

Breeders can’t afford to breed for this market anymore :no: Most of us were OK with just breaking even - I knew several people who bred for this market, and most of us had a “real” job to pay the bills - it was a labor of love. But no one can afford to support others in their hobbies, to lose $5k or $10k for every young horse sold.

I hope this turns around at some point, because I know a lot of people who are struggling to find that nice ammie horse, and a fancy Warmblood with a really good brain is an EXPENSIVE partner… And many don’t want the heartbreak and ongoing cost of an older horse that will need to retire in a few years:(

[rulex]

They are not easy to find, but they are out there and they are not inexpensive. I’ve seen a few nice sporty type barrel bred horses and they are 10k+ as 2-5yos started western.

Unfortunately the return on investment in training won’t be as good as starting with a similar aged young WB of average quality that can be found for a bit more money. So that is also a conundrum for an ammy trying to make the best of a limited budget.

And quite frankly as far as “good brain” goes, I consider the horse in front of me regardless of breed. In fact I have an ammy barnmate who sold their saint of a WB and replaced it with a nice QH and unfortunately lost their confidence on the QH and are now unable to sell the QH for anything close to what they paid for it and invested in dressage training.

[atl_hunter]

@rulex

They are not easy to find, but they are out there and they are not inexpensive. I’ve seen a few nice sporty type barrel bred horses and they are 10k+ as 2-5yos started western.

Unfortunately the return on investment in training won’t be as good as starting with a similar aged young WB of average quality that can be found for a bit more money. So that is also a conundrum for an ammy trying to make the best of a limited budget.

And quite frankly as far as “good brain” goes, I consider the horse in front of me regardless of breed. In fact I have an ammy barnmate who sold their saint of a WB and replaced it with a nice QH and unfortunately lost their confidence on the QH and are now unable to sell the QH for anything close to what they paid for it and invested in dressage training.

My friends are in a similar situation. They bought their daughter a very nice OTTB with some 3’ show miles. It didn’t work our and now they are really struggling to sell the horse. Sure, it does well when the trainer and the college age (former big Eq riding) amateur rides it, but it’s supposed to be a child safe 3’ horse and what this horse has done and how it has behaved is not “child safe.” Now they have a carry cost for a horse their kid can’t ride, and they need to campaign it to get it sold. The horse was sadly overpriced when they bought it and I’m not sure how they will ever get it sold. It’s very sad. I feel for the little girl. At least with a WB you have a better chance at resale if you need to exercise that option.

[MysticOakRanch]

@atl_hunter

My friends are in a similar situation. They bought their daughter a very nice OTTB with some 3’ show miles. It didn’t work our and now they are really struggling to sell the horse. Sure, it does well when the trainer and the college age (former big Eq riding) amateur rides it, but it’s supposed to be a child safe 3’ horse and what this horse has done and how it has behaved is not “child safe.” Now they have a carry cost for a horse their kid can’t ride, and they need to campaign it to get it sold. The horse was sadly overpriced when they bought it and I’m not sure how they will ever get it sold. It’s very sad. I feel for the little girl. At least with a WB you have a better chance at resale if you need to exercise that option.

OTTBs are not really known for their easy dispositions, just saying… I know plenty of these horses (OTTB) that are given away, or end up in rescues because of their not-so-easy temperaments. I do agree, resale is easier on a Warmblood - but I know plenty of difficult WBs that have been given away because they are - difficult. Actually even had a Grand Prix horse in this area that couldn’t be placed for FREE because he was too hard to ride. Reality is, a talented horse is likely to find a home, but the harder they get to ride, the harder it is to find the right home.

The “regular income” rider is rapidly being outpriced from the market - which helps to explain the huge slide in USEF (and USDF) memberships… It use to be, you’d see plenty of regular priced horses with regular income riders at the shows. Not so much anymore