Where to find higher level, quality dressage horse

[Roni4444]

@2tempe

OP - Heidi Degele in Loxahatchee sells a lot of horses, generally very nice and almost entirely 3rd level and above. She also knows a ton of people and may be able to send you in other directions as well. Her sales list is not as long now as it has been but its still early in the season.

And, if your budget allows, contact the new Helgstrand barn in Wellington.

I’m also going to ask why you wouldn’t consider something w/ less than perfect training? My current horse came with some contact issues and a brain that would get ahead of himself. But he was so much fun to be around and on; such an amazing work ethic and so capable, that I fell in love. Way better now, he got me my silver medal and we will soon do I-1.

I am at an age and stage in life to search for my “dream horse”. I have been working with “issues” and have learned and am grateful for the experiences. But now, for my successor horse, I would like to find a horse that can handle upper level work more easily

[Roni4444]

@Angela Freda

Perhaps the OP can start that… what a way to fund your Dressage career, a website for marketing ‘Higher level Dressage horses’ that have been pre-screened by a Maestro of Dressage so that a listing on the website would indicate that the ad indeed represents the horse offered!
Cha-Ching!

Wouldn’t that be the perfect business model! A website or even actual place, where well trained horses that are sound or reasonably so, are accessible! And not at Helgstrand’s prices. $300k+ is a higher than most can afford.

[Roni4444]

@Angela Freda

OP it would help to know your location, your budget range, and can you clarify you say you want:

‘a quality horse that’s at or below 10 years of age, 4th or above with good gaits’

But then state… 'Not showing doesnt mean I don’ride through the tests. And seeing some horses doing a certain level of test does also not mean that they are confirmed at that level, as some are done badly. And yes, a lot of frustration is seeing the videos after reading the description of what level the horse is supposed to be and often they are not "

So how is it that you will determine that the horse you become interested in is 4th or above anyway without show recordS?
You might not think much of a show record, and indeed one score in the 60s could be evidence of the pair having had a really good day on show day… but several scores in the 60s from a variety of judges does speak to a more likely proficiency at that level.
Conversely, if the pair has a couple scores in the 40s, I think one can say that the show record confirms that horse is NOT 4th level proficient, and maybe not 3rd either if there are no scores at 3rd either.
A show record, in part, can often show us the horses progress up the training scale, and should/could reflect the appropriateness of the move up to a new level, as evidenced by the quality, consistent scores at the former level. Ie that Classical, quality training you seek.

And why 4th? If you are already riding at 4th level and ready to move up, I am surprised your trainer doesn’t have sources of horses suitable for you to consider, to cut out that whole ‘bait/switch’ you are experiencing with horses being advertised as ___ while demonstrating they clearly are not proficient at that level. Most trainers have a good network especially if they themselves still work with other trainers as most quality, UL trainers do.

I can pm you my budget. I am less concerned about the geographic area as I can travel. Yes, I am riding 4th and PSG now and am working with my trainer but am also looking myself. I (we) will be able to discern if the horse is honest in the connection, worked over its backs and if it can collect and has enough power to do up the levels. I don’t mind looking at show records but they are not a determining factor for me. I have seen scores given away and good performance not scoring so well - maybe even because of a few mistakes. So, while I will review them, they are not a major factor for me.

[atlatl]

@MysticOakRanch

You can always put an ISO listing on the Dressage Horses for Sale FB page. You’ll have to sort through a lot of horses that don’t meet your criteria, but you might find some good prospects there. Then second the comments - Welly World, or some of the bigger shows in California, and contact a few of the bigger name trainers.

This is literally what worked for me, an ISO ad on the referenced Facebook page. I ended up buying from Jennifer Williams in WA state and while there were a couple of bumps along the way, I am very happy with my new horse. Here’s her website

https://www.summervalepremierdressage.com/

[Edre]

@Roni4444

I can pm you my budget. I am less concerned about the geographic area as I can travel. Yes, I am riding 4th and PSG now and am working with my trainer but am also looking myself. I (we) will be able to discern if the horse is honest in the connection, worked over its backs and if it can collect and has enough power to do up the levels. I don’t mind looking at show records but they are not a determining factor for me. I have seen scores given away and good performance not scoring so well - maybe even because of a few mistakes. So, while I will review them, they are not a major factor for me.

Out of curiousity, how did you determine your age cap? 4 seems quite young (especially with some of the bigger growing horses who I see people not starting until four or so). I do see quite a few ads for horses in the 5-7 range advertised at 4th/psg so perhaps if you’re willing to be a little flexible in the age you’ll come across more horses. A 4yo doing 4th is being fast-tracked and I suspect they’re much harder to find due to the fact that a successful, talented young horse at that level is probably getting ear-marked by BNTs/professionals so less likely for an amateur to get a foot in the door there.

Also a thought: If you do post an ISO ad, consider requesting/stating that ads won’t be looked at seriously without a video including some UL ridden components (and specify it doesn’t have to be at a show, perhaps?) I keep thinking of ways for you to reach the broadest audience for what you’re looking for and based on the ISO/online ad culture, this might be a fairly successful approach?

[Dutchmare433]

@Edre

Out of curiousity, how did you determine your age cap? 4 seems quite young (especially with some of the bigger growing horses who I see people not starting until four or so). I do see quite a few ads for horses in the 5-7 range advertised at 4th/psg so perhaps if you’re willing to be a little flexible in the age you’ll come across more horses. A 4yo doing 4th is being fast-tracked and I suspect they’re much harder to find due to the fact that a successful, talented young horse at that level is probably getting ear-marked by BNTs/professionals so less likely for an amateur to get a foot in the door there.

Also a thought: If you do post an ISO ad, consider requesting/stating that ads won’t be looked at seriously without a video including some UL ridden components (and specify it doesn’t have to be at a show, perhaps?) I keep thinking of ways for you to reach the broadest audience for what you’re looking for and based on the ISO/online ad culture, this might be a fairly successful approach?

OP said 10 years old or younger, schooling 4th, not 4 years old.

[Roni4444]

@Edre

Out of curiousity, how did you determine your age cap? 4 seems quite young (especially with some of the bigger growing horses who I see people not starting until four or so). I do see quite a few ads for horses in the 5-7 range advertised at 4th/psg so perhaps if you’re willing to be a little flexible in the age you’ll come across more horses. A 4yo doing 4th is being fast-tracked and I suspect they’re much harder to find due to the fact that a successful, talented young horse at that level is probably getting ear-marked by BNTs/professionals so less likely for an amateur to get a foot in the door there.

Also a thought: If you do post an ISO ad, consider requesting/stating that ads won’t be looked at seriously without a video including some UL ridden components (and specify it doesn’t have to be at a show, perhaps?) I keep thinking of ways for you to reach the broadest audience for what you’re looking for and based on the ISO/online ad culture, this might be a fairly successful approach?

I am looking for a horse under age 10. 4 is too young and if I stated this then it was in error. I have been there twice and there are so many variables that way or may not allow them to go to the upper levels. I would like to go no younger than 6. The reason I prefer younger than 10 is that I have two middle aged horses now and want this as a “successor” horse to be my partner for as long as possible. I dont want to be in a situation of having to have 3 retirees at once and one or two riding horses…

I have thought about ISO searches and have been scanning those that somewhat match what I am looking for but seem to see the same horses being listed. But as I am not in a great rush, I will carry on - and was mainly looking for suggestions and to make sure I am not overlooking opportunities. Thanks

[atlatl]

@Roni4444

…
I have thought about ISO searches and have been scanning those that somewhat match what I am looking for but seem to see the same horses being listed. But as I am not in a great rush, I will carry on - and was mainly looking for suggestions and to make sure I am not overlooking opportunities. Thanks

The horse I ended up buying was not listed anywhere I had looked. Nothing ventured, nothing gained…

[BigMama1]

@Roni4444

Not showing doesnt mean I don’ride through the tests. And seeing some horses doing a certain level of test does also not mean that they are confirmed at that level, as some are done badly. And yes, a lot of frustration is seeing the videos after reading the description of what level the horse is supposed to be and often they are not

OMG yes. There’s a guy out there who claims to be some kind of “classical dressage master” who has a horse he advertised as confirmed Fourth Level and nearly at FEI levels. This despite the horse’s only scores at Fourth were in the 40s and that she clearly lacks the conformation, strength, correct muscle development and basic training to do anything close to upper level work. What a waste of time for any buyer genuinely looking for a Fourth Level horse.

Still, here are plenty of very nice quality, well trained horses advertised on the various websites and FB groups, but if you have an appropriate budget for the horse you are searching for, contact a few trainers whose riding and results you like and ask what they currently have for sale. Then go to Wellington in Feb when you can see and try several of them on one trip.

[Edre]

@Roni4444

I am looking for a horse under age 10. 4 is too young and if I stated this then it was in error. I have been there twice and there are so many variables that way or may not allow them to go to the upper levels. I would like to go no younger than 6. The reason I prefer younger than 10 is that I have two middle aged horses now and want this as a “successor” horse to be my partner for as long as possible. I dont want to be in a situation of having to have 3 retirees at once and one or two riding horses…

I have thought about ISO searches and have been scanning those that somewhat match what I am looking for but seem to see the same horses being listed. But as I am not in a great rush, I will carry on - and was mainly looking for suggestions and to make sure I am not overlooking opportunities. Thanks

Oops! My bad. Reading comprehension fail on my part. Thanks for the clarification!

The other thought, and I don’t know how feasible this is for you, but if there’s a rider/trainer in your area that has horses going in a way you quite like, it might be worth contacting them to go “If you come across something” since your timeframe for searching sounds more flexible. I think this would be a good way to find a horse that has had training approached in a way you quite like. You could even contact more than one trainer with this - that way if they do happen to come across something (even if they don’t have anything currently) they’ll have your name in mind?

[hoopoe]

I think a greatly overlooked resource is contact with a clinician you work with. Tell them you are looking and they may know of someone who is selling.

This word of mouth connection can get you a long way.

So to if you know any of our top judges. They see 100s of horses every month and word gets around what is for sale, even those that are not actively listed.

Agree, also, with Summervale Farm, Jennifer has a consistent quality list of horses

[netg]

I agree with reaching out to trainers whose training you appreciate. It sounds as if horses you want may not be the training du jour for showing, and you have the knowledge and eye - so while they may have good show scores it isn’t necessary. That means you’re even more likely to need word of mouth to help you find a horse. Horses who haven’t been shown are more owned for the benefit of partnership, and so are less often for sale especially at that level - but it can happen. And most often will be a word of mouth sale to make sure the partner goes on to the right home.

[2tempe]

woodlands equestrian has a couple that may meet your criteria. There is one horse (young PRE) at our barn which was purchased from there; the trainer seemed very happy the quality of the horses she has. Be forwarned that some things on the videos may be a little “different”, lol.
Edited to add: in Houston.

[Mardi]

@Kemosabe

If you want to see many sales horses in one small geographic area, go to Wellington and Loxahatchee Florida this winter

The horses may be there, but the price tag will be higher.

[Mardi]

A few places to try …
DG Bar Ranch (California) www.dgbarranch.com
W Farms (California) www.wfarms.net

[alibi_18]

@Mardi

The horses may be there, but the price tag will be higher.

Travelling around the country to see one horse at a time is quite expensive too.

The OP wants something specific, not some diamond in the rough. Better spend a little more on something proven; it will be less expensive down the road.

[WildandWickedWarmblo]

Head for Wellington on or about January 10th. The whole winter show season starts about then. Bring lots of money.

[SnicklefritzG]

and read the thread on Tarjan and Roffman

@WildandWickedWarmbloods

Head for Wellington on or about January 10th. The whole winter show season starts about then. Bring lots of money.

[Angela_Freda]

@Roni4444

I can pm you my budget. I am less concerned about the geographic area as I can travel. Yes, I am riding 4th and PSG now and am working with my trainer but am also looking myself. I (we) will be able to discern if the horse is honest in the connection, worked over its backs and if it can collect and has enough power to do up the levels. I don’t mind looking at show records but they are not a determining factor for me. I have seen scores given away and good performance not scoring so well - maybe even because of a few mistakes. So, while I will review them, they are not a major factor for me.

I’m not sure what PM’ing me your budget will do, while sharing it- or a range- where you’re asking the question would help you get better answers.

*the more of your posts I read the more you ‘sound’ SO familiar… your choice of words “Higher level” etc… it’s weird.

[ToN_Farm]

Generally, buyers looking for a quality horse know where to look or have a trainer that does. I see a lot of high quality horses for sale at higher levels, but the pickins get slim when you want them to be under 10. That puts them in the Developing Horse category. We’re talking 200+ or so for such a horse. I get a feeling that the OP wouldn’t like the way those horses are trained.

There’s one other way to buy a quality horse that is not listed for sale. See one you like and make the owner an offer they can’t refuse. I think this is done more that one might think.