Where to look for draft horse

[dani0303]

Hi all. I am venturing over from H/J land for the first time. We are looking to start up a carriage ride business at the university that I coach for and we are in need of a small draft horse (possibly draft x?) to pull the carraige. While I don’t know much about driving, we have an experienced driver who rides with me.

Now for the question. Where do I go about looking for such a horse? We need something that is well broke to traffic and is easy to handle. We’d also prefer it to be on the cheaper side. Can ya’ll reccomend any breeders/website where I may be able to find this? I’ve already checked the usual (equine, dreamhorse, craigslist, equinenow) with no luck.

TIA!

[analise]

I am honestly unsure if they’d adopt out to someone who does carriage rides (would probably depend on the workload) but Gentle Giants isn’t too terribly far from you (in MD) and might be worth a call or email to the owner to see if it’s even a possibility. I know they just rescued several drafts from New Holland yesterday that drive (and two of them are smaller. Though not sure why you want a smaller draft when a big one can drive just as well. ).

Even if not, Christine hears about drafts in need of new homes all the time and might be able to point you in the right direction.

http://www.gentlegiantsdrafthorserescue.com

There’s also http://www.draftsforsale.com but I don’t know how good they are, I’ve never used them to find a horse.

[dani0303]

We wouldn’t be using it heavily…just for special occasions over at the university (holidays, orientation, open house, etc.)

We’d like a smaller horse because we also have a smaller cart that the really big ones are just too big for!

(Sorry I don’t know the official names of the carriages we have…)

Thanks for the info!

[analise]

Ah, if you’ve already got the cart then it makes sense you’d want to get the horse to fit it.

[Cielo_Azure]

The Harrisburg, PA auction is right around the corner.
http://www.thepadraftsale.com/

If I were you, don’t get something too chunky. They won’t do well in the heat when working and aren’t very versatile.

Also, too cheap is usually a draft with issues (feet, hocks, scratches, winded, EPSM). If you go for cheap, get a PPE. Also, be careful of getting a much older horse, unless you really aren’t going to be asking much of it.

www.draftsforsale.com is a great place to look.

[dani0303]

I’m not sure what cheap in draft horse world is but cheap to me is between $1000 and $3000. I’m not sure we’d want to spend more than $3000.

I come from H/J world where nice horses go for upwards of $75,000

[Cielo_Azure]

[QUOTE=dani0303;4583784]
I’m not sure what cheap in draft horse world is but cheap to me is between $1000 and $3000. I’m not sure we’d want to spend more than $3000.

I come from H/J world where nice horses go for upwards of $75,000 ;)[/QUOTE]

That should be enough to get you what you are looking for.

Keep us posted!

[farmgirl88]

[QUOTE=dani0303;4583689]
Hi all. I am venturing over from H/J land for the first time. We are looking to start up a carriage ride business at the university that I coach for and we are in need of a small draft horse (possibly draft x?) to pull the carraige. While I don’t know much about driving, we have an experienced driver who rides with me.

Now for the question. Where do I go about looking for such a horse? We need something that is well broke to traffic and is easy to handle. We’d also prefer it to be on the cheaper side. Can ya’ll reccomend any breeders/website where I may be able to find this? I’ve already checked the usual (equine, dreamhorse, craigslist, equinenow) with no luck.

TIA![/QUOTE]

contact AC4H> They have come across a LOT of carriage horses/draft horses who were work horses that are being dumped at the auctions and are ending up in the slaughter pens. Belgians, Percherons, and Paint/Spotted drafts are constantly in the kill pens. Most are in need of a good meal and some hoof trimming but all are dead broke to drive. contact them and tell them what you’re looking for. I’ve seen some really nice perch and Belgian drafties who just need some minor TLC who are dead broke on their listings. ask them what you’re looking for in terms of age, etc and im sure they’ll be able to find you one dirt cheap, and i’m sure you’ll feel good about saving a life

or just go to one of the kill auctions. you really never know what you’ll find. AC4H recently listed several really really nice and well taken care of draft pairs, etc that were all dumped by the same farm at New Holland.

[danceronice]

Well, the Belgians on there right now have awful feet. I’m amazed the one is willing to walk on the one pictured. That’s a huge farrier bill there, if it’s fixable at all–someone let that poor horse’s foot go criminally bad.

If the cart’s small enough and they’re still available they did have a slew of registered Halflingers come through, though. But if you’re not a draft person I’d call Gentle Giants–I wouldn’t go buying drafts without someone who seriously knows what they’re looking for, and then you still get the rescue, or at least they could point you the right way. It’s too big an animal to make a mistake with temperament or training.

Farmgirl88…again? They’re “all dead broke to drive”? One day you are going to say something like that and are going to end up named as a party in a lawsuit when someone gets killed because they believed you. Do you read AC4H’s own disclaimer where they make no warranties about ANYTHING on the broker horses? They don’t guarantee a thing, be it health, training, or behavior, because they don’t want to get sued when they’re wrong.

[Cielo_Azure]

Sigh. As hard as it is to believe, Amish and working folk don’t dump their good horses at kill auctions. Be careful if you really want a useful animal when getting such an animal.

Just like you might not chose to buy a h/j from such sources, it is often prudent to buy horses where you can talk to the owner about driving level, soundness issues, behavioral issues, etc. Especially with a driving horse. Over the years, we have had more unsound horses come through our facility for training that were “Rescued” horses and completely unfit to work or just not trained. Just because a horse is a draft or cross doesn’t mean it is trained.

I think getting such a horse is a huge risk unless your motivation is purely to save a life.

[analise]

Cielo Azure,

I only mentioned Gentle Giants because I volunteer there and know that every horse gets evaluated for what they can do (and then typically get retrained for riding, but they can be tested for driving knowledge as they have the equipment and knowledge to do so) and Christine takes care to place a horse with a home that can handle it. I’ve seen her flat out tell people interested in a particular horse that it isn’t the right one for them and either point them to another horse at the rescue that would suit better or tell them they don’t have anything at this point in time that would and to check back later.

I know getting horses from an auction can be a crap shoot (because you’re right, typically if they end up there, especially at a kill auction, they’re there because of a problem. However, I’ve seen plenty of good horses (perhaps with minor problems. One was a saint of a large pony/small horse that was blind in one eye but is still perfectly rideable and a lady adopted him for her beginner sister to ride and to keep her horse company. Another is a former carriage horse who we assume got dropped at auction because he had problem with roaring (and the rescue got him the surgery to mitigate that) but who is otherwise great for riding or driving.) come out of auctions so it’s certainly possible and a good rescue will evaluate the horse for what it can actually do and not just say it can drive because it’s a draft.

[Trakehner]

Do you really need a draft or even a draft cross?

How much will the fully loaded carriage weigh?
What’s your terrain (hilly or flat?).
Does the carriage have brakes?
What is the measurement of your shafts (which will control the size of horse you want to use).
Do you have harness already?

I’ve had Shires I drove, a Gelderlander, ponies and now a new Saddlebred/Perchie cross who will start driving again in the Spring. My full drafts were a pain for shoeing (expensive when you could find a farrier who’d even do one), you can’t find Easy-Boots in their size either.

If you do want a draft, Belgians are by far the cheapest. What color horse do you want? There are a lot of them out there for under $3K who can drive. Lots of bad feet too!

Can you even drive? You don’t want to venture into the world of 4-wheeled vehicles until you are more experienced…especially with anything involving commercial/out-in-public. You did mention you had an experienced whip you ride with…they should be your first contact. If they can’t help you, perhaps they’ve held the reins but aren’t all that experienced.

Cheap and driving can be a bad thing…especially when doing something involving the public.

www.drafts4sale.com is a pretty good site. So is Agdirect…just do a search for “pleasure driving” as a selection criteria.

Good Luck

[farmgirl88]

[QUOTE=danceronice;4583899]
Well, the Belgians on there right now have awful feet. I’m amazed the one is willing to walk on the one pictured. That’s a huge farrier bill there, if it’s fixable at all–someone let that poor horse’s foot go criminally bad.

If the cart’s small enough and they’re still available they did have a slew of registered Halflingers come through, though. But if you’re not a draft person I’d call Gentle Giants–I wouldn’t go buying drafts without someone who seriously knows what they’re looking for, and then you still get the rescue, or at least they could point you the right way. It’s too big an animal to make a mistake with temperament or training.

Farmgirl88…again? They’re “all dead broke to drive”? One day you are going to say something like that and are going to end up named as a party in a lawsuit when someone gets killed because they believed you. Do you read AC4H’s own disclaimer where they make no warranties about ANYTHING on the broker horses? They don’t guarantee a thing, be it health, training, or behavior, because they don’t want to get sued when they’re wrong.[/QUOTE]

most of the draft horses that go through new holland, which is directly in the ceter of amish country (if you’ve ever been there, that is) are from nearby Amish farms. Those horses ARE in fact, dead broke to drive…thats what they did for a living day in and day out.

[analise]

[QUOTE=farmgirl88;4584078]
most of the draft horses that go through new holland, which is directly in the ceter of amish country (if you’ve ever been there, that is) are from nearby Amish farms. Those horses ARE in fact, dead broke to drive…thats what they did for a living day in and day out.[/QUOTE]

Depends on if they were used for driving a cart nicely or driving a plow.

I know someone who has a Belgian was used for plowing (and another for pulling contests) and if you harness them up and tell them to go, they dig in and go. They don’t know how to pull quietly like a carriage horse and would have to be retrained for that and someone getting a horse trained like that would get quite the surprise if they didn’t understand this.

[farmgirl88]

[QUOTE=analise;4584108]
Depends on if they were used for driving a cart nicely or driving a plow.

I know someone who has a Belgian was used for plowing (and another for pulling contests) and if you harness them up and tell them to go, they dig in and go. They don’t know how to pull quietly like a carriage horse and would have to be retrained for that and someone getting a horse trained like that would get quite the surprise if they didn’t understand this.[/QUOTE]

eh, not quite. pulling drafts and plowing/carting drafts are completely different. if you ever watches what happens at fairs with pulling horses, it’d be a little more clear. a good friend of mine has pulling belgians and when they get them lined up and hooked on, those things are taking off, you are correct. but they are trained to do that so that they will get the most out of their pull.

Plowing amish horses do exactly work in such a way, especially when most of the time there is one person operating the team in the field, not 5 of them trying to hook the team up to the plow (like pulling ponies), you dont want the team yanking, pulling ang GOING when plowing a field. plow horses work in a much more quiet demenor.

This is why i suggested they contact AC4H. they have connections at the auctions who know some of the horse’s history, etc. Like i said, AC4H had some lovely, lovely looking teams posted, who were in extremely good condition and were actually used and trained for (as listed by AC4H, they had their history) what the OP was looking to do with a draft. all of those teams and horses found homes and are no longer listed on AC4H, but keep your eyes peeled.

They were a lighter draft type but well built and nice looking teams. There was also a dark black percheron mare on there (she is now listed on page 5 as found a home) who was very, very thin, sound per video and very quiet. they rode her around and even said she was a very very lazy horse…it was just obvious she hadnt had a good meal in awhile.

The well broke teams who were used for carriage rides/sleigh rides before being sold at auction were selling for $1,000-$1,500. Like i said; its worth keeping your eyes peeled. i bought a horse at an auction who is going to make a stellar h/j warmblood that the people dumped off because the owner stopped paying board and kids in the barn wouldnt ride him because they “thought he was a bully”. The horse is dead quiet. spurs and stick needed, has auto changes, jumps anything and is sound

Im not saying to specifically buy through the broker listings but to go to the auction with a rescue or someone who knows the auctions well and take a look. flex a horse, jog it, and just browse. you never know what you may find…and NO—not all horses at an auction are broken down, useless horses. thats a stereotype. many have wound up in the wrong hands of neglect, or owners have been forced to sell due to financial restrictions. just take a look, its always worth a shot

[analise]

Then I misunderstood what was told me about how a former plowing horse pulled a cart when they hitched her to it. Or perhaps it was only that particular horse.

I still feel my point stands that just because a horse has been hitched doesn’t mean it will be perfect for what the OP wants. (The only reason I’d be leery of the broker listings is because I feel like [and correct me if this is wrong] is that you get even less of a chance to try out a broker horse than you might get at an auction, even. (the saintly large pony I mentioned earlier we actually got to ride, but it was at an auction with a riding ring for that purpose and he didn’t bat an eyelash at the other horses getting cowboyed around the ring around him). Of course, NH doesn’t have a riding ring (though I have seen people ride or at least get on horses in the aisleways). It’s also interesting to watch people on the horses waiting to go in the auction ring and see how they act there.

[danceronice]

If you read AC4H’s disclaimer/waiver for the broker horses, they’ll tell you–no guarantees about anything about any of the horses. They do get to ride a little (which is more than you can do buying straight from the track) but they don’t do any kind of detailed analysis. For histories, if the horse has one, they’re relying on what they’re told and very wisely won’t swear it’s true. They don’t vet or attempt to diagnose, and they don’t warranty what they’re told about the animal.

Another disadvantage (which I was just warned about) is the need to seriously quarantine horses coming out of auction lots. If they weren’t sick when they arrived, it’s entirely possible they will be when they leave. (I was specifically told if I want to get a NH horse to quarantine a month because of strangles.) I still might, if I can work out the arrangements, but for what the OP is doing and given their relative inexperience with harness horses a kill pen may not be a good place to gamble, at least not without going in person, with someone who knows exactly what they’re looking at and how to deal with the brokers.

[Cielo_Azure]

Amish farm (plow) horses have often not been exposed to ANYTHING. Be careful. They are not so easy sometimes.

They have never seen street signs, cars, streetlights, lines on the roads, tractors, bikes, motorcycles, man hole covers, noises, dogs or fast moving vehicles. Driving them, can be very, very dangerous.

On the farm, no issues. Off the farm, it a whole new world.

Most do come around but they need an experienced driver for a while.

Other things they tend to spook at big time (on the ground): flysprays, elecricity, tractors, radios, clippers, cars and ATVs. The don’t know how to pick up feet without stocks and don’t understand the whole farrier thing without stocks.

When teaching a horse such as this to ride, be careful. If you think they spook WITH blinkers on, just see what they can do without!

[fivehorses]

I’ll get into this discussion.

I think with the economy the way it is, there are many good horses at NH and in kill pens.

I have 5 kill pen horses, and all are super broke, but one. She had the crap beat out of her, and even 2 years later is still a bit mistrustful, but has about come full circle. The others are all ok, except one other some amish person pulled the piss out of this horse. I can deal with a lot, but this was pure physical abuse of a very pretty mare…he blew her suspensories by chronically dehydrating her and when she came to me she had no hind end muscle left. Sick. She is muscled back up, but suspensories are gone. She is sound, but I would never hitch her up, although I know she’d do as I ask.

My first kill pen horse was a dream…had a quarter crack. He was gorgeous, and taught me how to drive. Sound and sane…very sane.

So, let’s not discount or belittle kill pen horses. You can get ripped off just as easily by buying a horse from a breeder or dealer.

Op, If you have 3,000 to spend, I’d contact the Coles(penwoods products) in Centre Hall, Pa…they are top shelf percheron breeders and could put you in touch with a decent bred horse and possibly a well trained one to boot. You do want a been there done that kind of horse.

Drafts are more expensive to feed, and I am sure many a good one is going for cheap, and that attracts the meat men.
good luck

[ASB_Stars]

I do not have drafties- now, I’ll admit, I’d loff to own one…some day…

But, I do have more than a passing experience with the Amish, and with their draft mules, and drafties.

Those in my area rotuinely drive down the roads, because, in order to move cut crops, or the spreader, or whatever, because of the nature of things, they have to go down, and cross roads. Further, the roads are generally Gawdawful busy…as in, I would not want to walk down them, let alone drive my horse.

SO…in this area, wherein New Holland and AC4H function, there is every reason to believe that they have been exposed to more than the average work horse/mule has been. In fact, I do not know a single Amishman in my area who does NOT have to cross roads with their teams.