Where to sit? Horse cants his hips to the inside on the right lead

[jdobbs64]

Forgive me, I’m overthinking and need clarity.

I have a super honest, super willing horse who travels hollow to the right. We’re consistently working on SI/HI/LY, establishing real bend in both directions, not faking it through his neck etc etc etc. Yes, he’s sound. We also do lots of carrot stretches to help him be Mr Limber. There are no medical issues, just strength and balance

At a canter on the right lead, I can see in the mirror that he cants his hips to the inside, and while I can have my legs on him w/o issue, any additional inside leg at the canter upsets him as he thinks I’m maybe asking him to move off to the left, where the rail is, so he gets upset and tries to figure out how to switch but he doesn’t know how, etc). I know it’s a balance and strength issue that creates that canting to the inside to the right…

SO- My Question Is…

Where am I supposed to be sitting?
Weight my right hip more than my left hip?
more left leg at girth to push those ribs over?
sit against him just a bit on the left rein so he’s not ‘bulging’ to the left to try ‘make’ him straighter?
Seat even and continue working on strength and balance with ____ exercise?

Tips on seat and helping a horse gain strength and balance on their hollow side at a canter would be hugely appreciated. Thank you.

[Cat_Tap]

Try riding the right canter in a shoulder fore position, sitting on the inside seatbones with supporting, not driving inside leg, to a supporting outside hand and a guiding inside hand.

[Nestor]

Having a horse who likes to be crooked like this in both direction, I do have to focus on keeping his outside shoulder in front of his bum. I work on shoulder-fore, where the inside hooves are on the same track, and the outside front lands on a track just inside the outside hind.

Remember, straightness comes before bending. If the horse isn’t straight, he can’t bend properly. So I would not worry about bend that way, and try to get him straight.

One exercise to try at the canter is when you’re on the long side, ask him to move his shoulders to the inside. It’s like a step of leg yield. You don’t want to ask for much, just a step to get him to bring his shoulders in front of his haunches.

This is totally a strength issue, so it will take time and patience to fix, and it may always be his weak spot.

[hoopoe]

as the others have said
you correct the hind end via the forehand,.

you sit in the middle

get control of filling the left hand and staying into the left hand via a demi shoulder fore

make sure you are not giving away your fingers

[ThreeFigs]

The above posters have it exactly right. Shoulder-fore, shoulder-in is your friend.

Can you flex him slightly to the left while cantering right? While this may be above his pay grade (I don’t know where you are with him…), it might help encourage flexibility. Don’t hold him there, just a quick flex left for a stride or two, yes, while riding shoulder-fore.

But the real trick is aligning his front end and his back end.

[pluvinel]

You can also try haunches-in on that side…at walk, trot, canter to strengthen the hind end.

[arlosmine]

Absolutely resist the temptation to address the hind end for this issue. It’s not the location of the problem. The horse is “shoulders out”, not “haunches in”.

Shoulder fore is a great approach, as is doing counter position in order to shift shoulders away from wall, then gently repositioning to inside while keeping shoulders off the wall.

Frequently you will be shifted to the outside when the horse is contorted/crooked. Take care that you are central, with inside sitting bone in advance of outside.

[pluvinel]

[QUOTE=arlosmine;8836529]
Absolutely resist the temptation to address the hind end for this issue. It’s not the location of the problem. The horse is “shoulders out”, not “haunches in”.

Shoulder fore is a great approach, as is doing counter position in order to shift shoulders away from wall, then gently repositioning to inside while keeping shoulders off the wall.

Frequently you will be shifted to the outside when the horse is contorted/crooked. Take care that you are central, with inside sitting bone in advance of outside.[/QUOTE]

Sigh…I was waiting for this comment to appear.

Why is it that the majority of people who ride dressage thinks in binary…yes/no; black/white; right/wrong.

Life…and living beings…are not binary. Things are usually not “either/or”.

The answer is “it depends”…The horse canters crooked for a number of reasons…one is whether the rider is sitting crooked…that’s one question to answer.

The other reason for a horse to canter crooked is whether the horse has a weakness (muscularly) or physical defect such that the horse is protecting itself by throwing the haunch in…or escaping with outside shoulder.

All this, the rider needs to diagnose.

The haunches-in is a gymnastic exercise to strengthen the hind end. The shoulder-in is also a gymnastic and can be used to stretch the “contracted” side.

So, you can do canter in haunches-in and counter-canter in haunches-out…both will strengthen the horse’s hind end and increase its ability to develop carrying power so that it can push off each stride and straighten its body.

You can ALSO ride in shoulder-in stretching the contracted (non-hollow) side.

So the answer is to do BOTH…haunches-in/haunches out AND shoulder-in/shoulder-out to develop strength and flexibility in the horse.

That is…assuming the rider is not crooked. Topic for another thread.

[atr]

I have one of these It truly is a strength and development issue. Mine was a giant drink of water when I first got him and could barely stand up straight, let alone canter on a straight line.

We’ve worked on shoulder in and shoulder fore at all gaits to help him develop the muscles he needs to carry himself correctly. It takes time, that’s a lot of muscle.

When he gets tired, or is being pushed a bit harder (extended canter…), it pops up again, but on the whole it has improved hugely.

It came back with a vengeance when we started working on travers… he got a bit confused. “Hey, you’ve been telling me not to do this and now you are asking me for it? Lets try and see if we can do it in the canter too!!!” But we seem to have sorted out that there is a difference between doing things when asked and volunteering your version of them when you deem it appropriate.

[merrygoround]

This is what makes riding an athletic endeavor. Pluvinel has the best method of attack.

The rider must keep the outside shoulder slightly off the wall, while simultaneously keeping their position , no matter how difficult it feels, with the weight slightly on the inside. Sometimes it involves carrying the inside leg further back than is ideal.

Ride the horse you have, into the horse you want. Reins just control the neck, your legs must control the horse.

[jdobbs64]

[QUOTE=atr;8836837]
I have one of these It truly is a strength and development issue. Mine was a giant drink of water when I first got him and could barely stand up straight, let alone canter on a straight line.

We’ve worked on shoulder in and shoulder fore at all gaits to help him develop the muscles he needs to carry himself correctly. It takes time, that’s a lot of muscle.

When he gets tired, or is being pushed a bit harder (extended canter…), it pops up again, but on the whole it has improved hugely.

It came back with a vengeance when we started working on travers… he got a bit confused. “Hey, you’ve been telling me not to do this and now you are asking me for it? Lets try and see if we can do it in the canter too!!!” But we seem to have sorted out that there is a difference between doing things when asked and volunteering your version of them when you deem it appropriate.[/QUOTE]

I think that’s a lot of where we are, the travers has him very keen to listen and respect my right leg, but weakness swings that RH in on the line, and he gets all verklempt

[jdobbs64]

[QUOTE=pluvinel;8836638]
Sigh…I was waiting for this comment to appear.

Why is it that the majority of people who ride dressage thinks in binary…yes/no; black/white; right/wrong.

Life…and living beings…are not binary. Things are usually not “either/or”.

The answer is “it depends”…The horse canters crooked for a number of reasons…one is whether the rider is sitting crooked…that’s one question to answer.

The other reason for a horse to canter crooked is whether the horse has a weakness (muscularly) or physical defect such that the horse is protecting itself by throwing the haunch in…or escaping with outside shoulder.

All this, the rider needs to diagnose.

The haunches-in is a gymnastic exercise to strengthen the hind end. The shoulder-in is also a gymnastic and can be used to stretch the “contracted” side.

So, you can do canter in haunches-in and counter-canter in haunches-out…both will strengthen the horse’s hind end and increase its ability to develop carrying power so that it can push off each stride and straighten its body.

You can ALSO ride in shoulder-in stretching the contracted (non-hollow) side.

So the answer is to do BOTH…haunches-in/haunches out AND shoulder-in/shoulder-out to develop strength and flexibility in the horse.

That is…assuming the rider is not crooked. Topic for another thread.[/QUOTE]

Very insightful. I’m also hollow on my right side LOL so we’re both a work in progress. Maybe we should just turn left more and stretch ourselves out

Thanks ALL of you, super helpful to think it all through.

[goeslikestink]

can i add some thing… when people work with mirrors in the school they look at themselves and the neddy… and what happens is your sub conshiously moving your own body weight with an older horse that wiser to the riding game will automatically know what your asking but with a young horse in hand that doesn’t know to much will confuse the horse… as where you look your hands will follow and the horses head and body follow through…

the horse is doing w hat he thinks your asking… so because your looking in the mirror hes trying to compensate your body weight movement of hands with his own so guess what… he will throw him self out and look like he got 11 legs as he hasnt a clue where to put them… as your not central to his body as you adjusted yourself when you look in the mirror…so dot lok just concentrate on what your asking him to with a your body being central the middle of the saddle on his back and your hands not moving away from the contact

[jdobbs64]

Gls the mirrors are dead ahead on the long sides, no twisting to see what’s what…riding straight ahead he’s crooked.

[CFFarm]

http://www.classicaldressage.co.uk/Straightness/straightness.html

[MojitoMare]

My mare goes with her haunches in both directions, if I let her. My trainer says it is because it is easier for her to travel crooked like that and someone in her past either let her get away with it or encouraged it. It has been a pain to try and train her out of it. Especially because I couldn’t feel how crooked she was at first. I can feel it now. My trainer has me ride in a ‘feeling of shoulder fore’ when the haunches get crooked.

But what I have found has helped the most is to half halt with the outside rein, and get her truely connected to that rein. It is hard to explain, but I feel like she gets crooked when we lose that connection to the outside. At first it felt really wrong to push her shoulders over and touch her with the outside rein, it felt like I was counter-bending her. What is actually straight feels counter bent to me, because I’ve been riding her crooked for so long.

I hope this make sense. I can conjure up the feel and what I mean instantly in my mind, but it is very hard for me to try to explain it.