Where to start? Grumpy, edgy pony

[IndysMom]

I have one of the hot weather snoozer/cold weather monsters. I’ve had him for 14 years. I have resigned myself to the fact that in the winter he must be lunged prior to riding and periodically he has to have a church meeting regarding overall manners. He is a horse that needs work most days in order to stay sane in the winter. Your boy may be one of these.

BTW, he’s a QH who has multiple awards, has shown in several states and been to Congress and the World show so it’s not like he’s untrained or unmanageable.

[Heinz_57]

They usually hang out in the trees at the top of the hill about 1/4 mile away, on the other side of a grass field - but this winter they seem to have ventured much closer. I have video (sound only, it was 8pm) from last week, they can’t be more than ~250’ away, a whole bunch of them yipping and barking just on the other side of the trees at the edge of the property. It definitely upsets him, and that could be what he’s on the lookout for outside the barn. He spends a lot of time staring at the trees, even from his stall window.

@IndysMom I do think he would benefit from a strict schedule and a proper ‘job’, he’s a smart kid when he’s cooperative. My arena footing isn’t that reliable in winter, so some days we’re stuck with walk-only when it’s extra soggy. Even when the footing is good he doesn’t seem to settle this time of year though.

[DunByMistake]

This is my second winter with my TB. I was pregnant last year so didn’t do lot with him. This year I had big plans of riding a lot in the snow to get him fit.

I was wrong. Turns out, he HATES slipping in the snow and ice. If I try to work him in the grass pasture and he slips (even the tiniest bit), he loses his mind. Rearing at the end of lead rope or jumping 4 feet straight in the air. Ears flat back and considering biting my arm. If I work him on our asphalt driveway that’s typically melted off and dry, perfect angel. I’ve come to accept he isn’t a fan of winter or less than ideal footing.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Heinz_57 stab in the dark here… but some of what you said about how picky he is about blankets makes me think he’s really uncomfortable in his own skin. Have you thought about PSSM? I know you’re careful about his diet, but??

[B_and_B]

I know but it is funny, one gets this idea that the Thoroughbreds ought to be the hot house flowers right, especially one that was a ‘blue blood’. Not the working draft horse who comes from breeding stock that was never treated with all of the modern horse comforts. I find it a useful reminder to myself that horses have such a wide diversity of opinions and needs, which rarely coincide with what we think they ought to be. And untangling why the horse is unhappy can be formidably hard, I wish they could talk…I bet they wish We could talk!
Today, by the way, in a foot of snow both of my drafts are sprawled out fast asleep (I anticipate the ‘you have a dead horse in your field’ call from a local walking group any minute), sans blankets as it is sunny and dry if cold.

[Heinz_57]

@Obsidian_Fire

Have you thought about PSSM? I know you’re careful about his diet, but??

Like many things, it doesn’t exactly “fit” but it’s certainly possible. Being ill-behaved certainly isn’t a very distinctive symptom!

[S1969]

@Heinz_57

They usually hang out in the trees at the top of the hill about 1/4 mile away, on the other side of a grass field - but this winter they seem to have ventured much closer. I have video (sound only, it was 8pm) from last week, they can’t be more than ~250’ away, a whole bunch of them yipping and barking just on the other side of the trees at the edge of the property. It definitely upsets him, and that could be what he’s on the lookout for outside the barn. He spends a lot of time staring at the trees, even from his stall window.

Do you have snow? My farrier was just telling me that his vet commented it’s a common thing for young horses to be more anxious in the winter because they can see into the trees with the snow on the ground. My farrier’s young mare has colicked twice recently and it seems that she’s spending more time worrying about the woods and not drinking water.

I would say that this might also interrupt his ability to sleep soundly, which may have been the difference between just being “winter horse” versus now - without a companion.

Can your horse be stalled at night?

As for coyotes, my horses don’t care about them at all - BUT, there are 3 of them. So, they know they could pulverize the whole pack if they had to. Alone - very different.

[Heinz_57]

@S1969

Can your horse be stalled at night?

He is stalled at night, yes. We had one day of snow but otherwise it’s just mud and rain here.

[candyappy]

I wonder if it is the combination of being alone, very limited turn out on the pasture and having to stand in a muddy wet " dry lot" for hours where he is basically unhappy doing so?

With a friend to expel his obvious extra energy on and being out where he can actually move during the warmer months ( lot or pasture) you can see an obvious difference. Sounds to me like he just has more energy than he can cope with.

How long does he go without food?

Can you leave him on the pasture when not in a stall?

[endlessclimb]

Can you just borrow another horse for a month to see if that fixes it? I’d be looking to do that before dropping a boatload of cash on a vet visit.

[Heinz_57]

@candyappy

How long does he go without food?

Can you leave him on the pasture when not in a stall?

He is never without hay, I feed him 3-4 times a day and he gets hay when he’s in the dry lot too. He can’t be on full grass turnout - he gets too fat, and his hoof quality declines due to the sugar.

The pasture is only marginally less muddy than the dry lot. This is a very wet area. I would move if I could.

@endlessclimb I honestly don’t know anyone with a horse they aren’t currently using/in training.

[RhythmNCruise]

I feel for you, as I’ve spent pretty much the past year sorting out my guy and addressing every possible issue that could be making him a bug-eyed, snorting monster when he’s normally a google-eyed (hes an app), loving sweetheart. Saddle fit, feet, and diet were all addressed and he pretty much came around and returned to being his sweet self.

BUT, he has occasions now and then when he goes a bit bat crackers. It’s usually something I cannot figure out or understand, but for whatever reason he’ll suddenly be ultra reactive and hypervigilant about his surroundings. This is mostly in the barn, where he only spends a little bit of time being groomed and tacked…he lives outside 24/7 and wouldn’t have it any other way. You’d think he’d been captured from the wild instead of born in a western pleasure show barn down the street, LOL!

Anyway, getting him a properly fitting saddle, changing his diet to a much lower carb (thankful for a BO who was willing to change feeds to accommodate my critter), putting him on SmartCalm Ultra for the magnesium and tryptophan, and especially getting a new barefoot trimmer who has performed miracles on his feet that have also helped his back (which I feel was one of the big factors in his behavior)…all have helped.

Like others here, I have also noticed that he’s a happier fella when he’s kept blanketed if it’s chilly and especially wet. If it’s sunny and cold he’s find, but even 50 degrees is too cold for him if it’s raining…he’s a miserable mess.

One thing that I find interesting about our two cases though is that my horse suffered the loss of both of his best friends and herd mates…one on Christmas Eve 2018 and the next on Labor Day 2019. It was after the loss of that last buddy that I sold the farm where he’d lived for 11 years since he was a yearling and moved him to the place we now board.

I can’t be sure, and maybe I’m being silly, but he was lost without his two “big brothers” who always looked out for him and basically raised him since he was a yearling. He never had to worry about anything, took all of his cues from them, and lived a carefree life back at “home.”

At the new place, he’s been turned out with various combinations of pasture buddies, and he always gets along with everyone…sometimes TOO well (gets a bit of separation anxiety with some). He really had a hard time figuring out his place for a while, and wound up taking on the boss role at one point, which really stressed him out. He seems to get very concerned about the welfare of certain horses (one mare and gelding in particular that he bonded with when he was out with them).

I often wonder if losing his two long-time best friends has left him a little anxious? Maybe he has some sort of PTSD. He really freaked out the day his last buddy died, it was so sad to watch. And since we’ve been at the new barn, TWO horses have died (oldies that were put to sleep). He wasn’t particularly close to these horses, but still.

If your older gelding was the herd leader, your younger guy might be feeling very lost and vulnerable right now. I understand not being able to get him another buddy right away, but I wouldn’t discount how big of a life-changing event it was for him to lose that other horse. It’s more than just loneliness. He’s lost his “herd” so-to-speak and that makes him vulnerable…which can definitely cause the behavior you’re seeing.

Just some thoughts. I hope you figure it out. It’s no fun, I know.

[clanter]

@luvmyhackney

Still wouldn’t hurt for a vet to check him over and check his vision while he is out.

I also suggest to have his vision tested/checked. We have an old pony that we know is at least partially blind that we have to work around otherwise there can be issues with reactions.

[TheDBYC]

@Heinz_57

Potentially, but it doesn’t really explain why he turns back into a lazy, relaxed dude in the warm months?

No great mystery there, imo. Most horses calm down in the summer because the heat makes them feel sluggish. There’s a kernel of truth behind all those cartoons of horse owners not daring to saddle up in the days immediately after the first frost…

Having had all manner of farm animals & observing their behavior across the seasons I think that the cold, dry winter air leads to an almost hyper-awareness of the senses for many animals. The trees are bare, the ground frozen hard; enabling sounds & smells to travel exponentially farther than they do in the warm seasons. There are more predators out searching for food, too. In winter it is not uncommon for my roosters to suddenly crow in the dead of night, for example. It means they hear a possible threat nearby. They rarely, if ever, crow at night in the warm months.

People are forever trying to give us fancy lawn mowers in halters so the idea of a place with no companion horse freebies is a foreign concept He is right to be worried about the coyotes. Within a 10 mile radius of me, at least 2 coyote-on-horse attacks are reported every year.

1. could you board him for a month or 2 at the place next door to see if the behavior abates with companionship? Cheaper than a ton of vet visits.

2. Get a couple cows, or let someone run theirs on your land. The danger with smaller ruminants is that many horses see them as intruders & will try to kill them. My horses didn’t like the cows but liked their presence. Even if they were in separate fields, they knew the cows were sharing the workload of watching for danger.

3. Get a full size donkey. They hate canidae & are very effective guards against coyote, especially. I’ve seen a farmer’s video of their guard donkey killing a coyote. Picks it up by the neck & repeatedly strikes/stomps it with his front feet & hurls it at the ground.

4. Add a livestock guardian dog like a Great Pyrenees or Anatolian.

[four2farm]

I agree with all of the above posts as far as ruling out any health issues.

Some horses just do not do well alone long term.

I had a horse who a family bought for the kids to ride. Super easy going, really nice beginner horse. He lived with them for six months, three months with a mini. Long story short the mini was untrained, bratty, hurt one of the kids and was sold. They never got another companion. They called me for help, I did not sell the horse but knew him quite well.

I went over and picked him up, rearing, striking, jumping out if his skin. I had to chute load a horse that 6 months ago I would have put my grandmother on. I brought him to my place and just put him out in a single paddock. He acted like a stud. I put him out with my broodmares the next day where he proceeded to get an attitude adjustment. Two hours later he passed out in the pasture, slept for the rest of the day. The next day he walked right up to me, let himself be caught. He allowed me to groom him and clean up the scuffs. I turned him back out and he slept all the next day and by day three he was fine, his old self. Quiet, sensible, reliable.

He went back home with an old rescue air fern pony mare. She kept him in line and there has been no problem since.

Some horses are just not able to handle living alone mentally. They do not sleep, they require the stability of a “herd” to keep their boundaries.

I can also tell you that two of my horse’s become downright idiotic when they get cold. Eddie will run around like a fool and act like his skin is on fire. I go to put his blanket on when he is cold he acts like I am torturing him. Dante turns into spook monster, jumping at every sound, can’t stand still. It makes blanketing so much fun if the weather turns quickly.

Sending wishes, you get your boy back to his happy place!

[EverElite]

Would you be willing to get him a goat friend or two? I have a nervous nelly-type who thrives living with her emotional support goats.

[Marla_100]

I can’t believe a horse who is clipped of his natural hair and living where it’s cold enough to snow,
isn’t suffering from being cold and unprotected.

That and being on guard 24/7 because he’s alone.

I think if you change your management on those two things, your pleasant horse will re-appear.

[Heinz_57]

@RhythmNCruise thanks for your story. My old man TB was definitely the boss - pony was a scrawny little 13.2h 3 year old, TB was 21 and 17.2 so he ruled purely based on size (he was not really a dominant guy). Pony didn’t seem particularly upset by the loss at the time, which was nearly 2 years ago now, but I’m sure it’s slowly been getting to him. I did plan to get another horse eventually; my human kid is going to be 5 this summer and needs something she can learn with and do leadline stuff on, so I was shooting for this summer after we’ve gotten the barn work done.

@TheDBYC the barn next door is full with a waiting list, and it is a $$$ “full service” facility where the board is more than half our mortgage payment. The only place in town with openings is a run down self-care barn that has very limited winter turnout. Cows are a good idea, but my barn is definitely not cow-proof and I would have to supplement the pasture pretty heavily with hay. I would love a donkey though. Nothing like a loud hee-haw in the morning!

@four2farm I agree that he may just need a buddy, I have some logistics to figure out to make that happen, and it will take some $$$$. Horse prices have gone nuts - anything that isn’t totally feral or dead lame is several grand.

@EverElite we have had goats, and he did seem to like the wether that would play with him, but I worry that he would be too rowdy. And our fencing is no longer goat-proof! It’s something I’m thinking about, though.

@Marla_100 sorry if I wasn’t clear, he’s not being left cold and unprotected. Average temps here are low to mid 50’s during the day and high 30’s at night; it snows once or twice at most and usually melts by the next day. When it’s 50+ and not windy, he goes out naked in the daytime because he sweats with a blanket on. If it’s supposed to rain or is cold or windy I will blanket him, and he is always blanketed at night. I check the weather morning and night and blanket him based on that - last night it was near 30 so he was in a full neck heavy weight. I am home almost 24/7 so can do eleventy-seven blanket changes to accommodate for weather changes, and bring him in if need be. I check on him often.

[TheDBYC]

Beef cows don’t generally enjoy coming into barns. The husbandry norm is they are fine outside 24/7 so long as they are healthy & have access to ample forage, minerals, and clean water. So you wouldn’t have to worry about the barn being cowproof.

Why would it matter if the buddy horse was unridable due to age or soundness issues? You just need it for companionship.

[Heinz_57]

@TheDBYC

Why would it matter if the buddy horse was unridable due to age or soundness issues? You just need it for companionship.

Unrideable or old is fine, but I would have concerns about him being too rowdy or picking on one with significant soundness issues, that’s all. I suppose it would just require separate turnout.