Where would you shop for an upper level event prospect?

[QUOTE=vineyridge;7860230]
The horses at the Lesch sale brought much, much more than the ones at the Goresbridge sale which I find interesting.

Remember that these folks are looking for an UL prospect. Whether they should have one is a whole nother question, but US breds haven’t shone in the ULs lately.[/QUOTE]

Yes maybe the ones at Lesch are not any prospects anymore … Some on them did quite well at the Bundeschampionat. One had already placings at CIC* and also CIC**.

In Germany I know also a good rider that buys and take up young ones - he is from ireland :wink: his may not yet be as much shown as the ones at the lesch sale.
Stephan Dubsky

[QUOTE=SLR;7860418]
How about looking in FL? Clayton Fredericks, Daisy Trayford, Joe Meyer, Leslie Law, Denise Rath, and Matt Flynn are all in Ocala. Liz Halliday-Sharp has just partnered with Richard Sheane to import a bunch. Matt Flynn usually has a barn full.[/QUOTE]

The problem with these folks is that they buy from Ireland and by the time it gets over to the USA the price has doubled, at least.

Here’s one bred in the US- bought as a yearling and now under saddle for just 3 weeks by Quite Capitol out of a half sister to the 4* horse Sloopy. It just takes someone willing to spend some time…

http://youtu.be/9IGtyIHM3As?list=UUGRPccLCNl7LAmrPm7T4SDA

[QUOTE=Equibrit;7860529]
The problem with these folks is that they buy from Ireland and by the time it gets over to the USA the price has doubled, at least.[/QUOTE]

Say a horse sold in Ireland at the Goresbridge sale for 7000 Euros–that’s about $11k. Say it costs about $12-15k to import. Not sure if the latter is a good number, but I do recall seeing it. So the 11k horse now costs 23-25k, and the importer has to make a profit. Brings the cost up to about 30k because you are also paying for a name that you are buying from.

I thought Denny Emmerson had some youngsters - and also check with Acorn Hill - their Stallion Freedom Z has produced two nice upper level eventer I know of.

Equibrit and Viney, you are both correct, but to go to Europe on your own you have to know where to look. Most people connect with an agent. In Ireland, let’s say that would be someone like Richard Sheane, or Carol Gee, both of whom know where to look and whom to deal with. Yes, you will pay for that expertise, but the sellers are generally not going to deal with you without that 3rd party. They know where their bread and butter comes from. So pay for it there or pay for it here. I’ve done it both ways, and think its a toss up.
Most of the sellers I mentioned look all over Europe, not just Ireland, some heavily in England, some in Netherlands, and Germany.
Still the ongoing debate. Are the horses here better than there? Having bought several THERE, I think the difference is the training. Their’s seem to be much further along than the youngsters here.

I doubt the Europeans are selling us their best prospects. Those are kept quietly aside for the likes of Michael Jung, et al… but I agree - the training is what we are lacking …

Some of us Canadian breeders are producing some pretty nice horses too.

Gail, you’re right. Sorry, I should have said NA breeders, not US…

The Pollards also breed event horses, and so do the folks at Royal Palm Farm.

I do think we need a little definition of terms: “prospect” could be anything from a yearling/2yo of promising type and pedigree, to a 4/5 yo with several events under its belt, to a 7/8 year old doing the young horse two stars. Since nothing is a real four star horse until it does the upper levels, all of those could be 4 star prospects.

In my little corner of the world, some names id add are Dragonfire Farm, who have been cleaning up in the young and future event horse classes, Wendy Webster (stands a Heraldik son and has produced a 4 star horse and an up and coming 2 star horse out of a relatively small program, and Sunsprite Warmbloods.

One advantage to going to Ireland is that the Irish can produce their horses more cheaply than we can. When we were at the Royal Dublin Show in August, I sat next to an Irishman. He takes his 3 year olds on quiet, group, trail rides on the good footing. His 4 year olds compete every other weekend at a cost of $80 per competition. By the time he brings a 5 year old to the RDS show, the horse is an experienced competitor who is relaxed and focused over the huge jumps at the RDS.

Here is a website: http://sporthorsenation.eventingnation.com/listing-category/horses-for-sale/

[QUOTE=elizabeth Callahan;7861151]
Gail, you’re right. Sorry, I should have said NA breeders, not US…[/QUOTE]

Thanks Didi.

I don’t have anything of the age the OP is looking for, but I do have what I consider a wonderful 2 yr old prospect, and 2 exceptional yearling colts.
But very young horses require someone who is able to see the potential in a very immature horse and who is willing to do the work and take the time.

Sent a PM

We already have the horses…we just flat out don t have the riders who want to put in the time. Most don’t have the eye to pick out a young horse, they will shop in Europe and fall for a manufactured processed loose jump unable to see unmade up potential.
Also the people with the financial resources to buy and or sponsor the UL Riders don t or won t spend their money here in the USA on our home grown young prospect green stock.
There is a real stigma attached to paying $20-30k for a going young prospect here especially an OTTB…but ship it to Ireland do a few HT’s get a passport slap a prefix on its new name an voila’ an expensive UL Event prospect is born…just don t look under the lip or check the tat!! True story.

http://www.ehorses.nl/search?dum=dum&eventingpaarden=ON&currency=EUR&Alter=2,5&AlterBis=6

Lauren Kieffer has done quite well as an event horse starter and mover up the levels for Ms. Mars and probably others.

[QUOTE=judybigredpony;7861448]
Sent a PM

We already have the horses…we just flat out don t have the riders who want to put in the time. Most don’t have the eye to pick out a young horse, they will shop in Europe and fall for a manufactured processed loose jump unable to see unmade up potential.
Also the people with the financial resources to buy and or sponsor the UL Riders don t or won t spend their money here in the USA on our home grown young prospect green stock.
There is a real stigma attached to paying $20-30k for a going young prospect here especially an OTTB…but ship it to Ireland do a few HT’s get a passport slap a prefix on its new name an voila’ an expensive UL Event prospect is born…just don t look under the lip or check the tat!! True story.[/QUOTE]

Boy isn’t that the truth. I have a LOVELY full bred TB filly. About to turn 5. Never raced or raced trained. People wouldn’t look at her as a 3-4 year old. She’s a late summer baby so was gangly at the time. But damn I could tell she can move and jump and has an outstanding gallop. SCREAMs UL event prospect for someone who can ride…she isn’t hard but she is a TB mare. So now she has gone novice easily and ready to run training (we are just waiting a bit because she is young). I’ve no doubt she will sell this spring for the high end of the OPs range.

And that is my point a bit…with 20-30K for an UL prospect…you are really only looking at OTTBs that have a small amount of miles or on the young side of your age range. Most purpose bred WB/crosses are out of tht price range by the time they are 4-5. Why…because MOST riders and trainers in the US can’t spot talent in the rough even if you smack them in the head with it. So you have to put the experience on them and prove your “prospect” a bit but by then…any idiot can tell the horse has talent and its price tag will reflect that.

Instead…they go to Europe…pay a ton for a horse with MASSIVE holes…but looks the part and think they are getting a deal. Ugh.

There are a TON of lovely prospects here in the US both with breeders and OTTBs. You just have to educate your eye as to what DOES have the raw materieal to be an UL prospect…AND understand well what YOU can ride and develop.

I think its a little more complicated than that. The ULR’s will have the European imports but will also have their fair share of TB’s in the barn. Perhaps most don’t have the eye for the 2-3 year olds, but they also don’t have any place to put them. We were offered a lovely 2 year old that screamed(as you say) talent, but where would it hang out until it was 4? Most ULR don’t have empty stalls or pastures for those not in work and showing. And their owners don’t want to wait either. So they go to Europe where they can see a ton of 4 year olds, ready and willing to go. You have a lovely one to show. ONE. In Ireland, a buyer can look at 60 in 3 days. Its also the age old problem,and this has been hashed and rehashed, but look what the judges are placing. That’s why the focus is on the warmbloods and the imports. Buyers follow the trends, whether it be dogs, cattle, rabbits,horses or whatever. I was really taken aback at the types shown at Fair Hill this year, jugheads, roman noses, thin throatlatches, but the suckers can move. Oh well.

[QUOTE=SLR;7861841]
I think its a little more complicated than that. The ULR’s will have the European imports but will also have their fair share of TB’s in the barn. Perhaps most don’t have the eye for the 2-3 year olds, but they also don’t have any place to put them. We were offered a lovely 2 year old that screamed(as you say) talent, but where would it hang out until it was 4? Most ULR don’t have empty stalls or pastures for those not in work and showing. And their owners don’t want to wait either. So they go to Europe where they can see a ton of 4 year olds, ready and willing to go. You have a lovely one to show. ONE. In Ireland, a buyer can look at 60 in 3 days. Its also the age old problem,and this has been hashed and rehashed, but look what the judges are placing. That’s why the focus is on the warmbloods and the imports. Buyers follow the trends, whether it be dogs, cattle, rabbits,horses or whatever. I was really taken aback at the types shown at Fair Hill this year, jugheads, roman noses, thin throatlatches, but the suckers can move. Oh well.[/QUOTE]

I have one that is in an area with MANY trainers…people come here to look at dozens of horses at a time. It is the advantage of being in this dense eventer/jumper/dressage rich area. There are more top level propects within 5 square miles than probably anywhere. Then…the bulk head to Aiken/Ocla. But my location is probably the best in the country for both buying and selling. And regardless…in this digital age, I don’t think there is much advantage to going to Europe anymore other than the “prestige” some attach to it. Yeah you can look at 60…of which maybe 5 really have the potential that I’m interested in (bloodlines, type, handling…we all have a type we prefer). I feel like at that point…I’ve wasted a ton of time. I can make a call to 3-5 people that I know typcally have good prospects here in the midatlantic area, have some pictures /videos emailed to me and likely one bought within a week without traveling far.

If you are looking for a going 2*+ horse that has the potential to do more…that is one thing as there are fewer of those on the market anywhere…but if you are in the OPs price range…then you are talking greener prospects than that. At which point…I’d not bother going abroad.

I also wasn’t talking about the youngsters under 2…yes a lot don’t have a place to put them but that isn’t my issue. The dressage and jumper trainers all seem to find places to raise them just fine. I’m talking about people looking at 3-4 year olds going undersaddle. I’m SHOCKED at the lack of ability in this country to look a horse and see the potential. I’ve seen it time and time and TIME again…not just with my horses but with others. People can’t not tell…and then they are drooling over the same horse a year or two later.

Some can…the Boyds, Phillips and a few others have a decent eye for a youngster. But the bulk of both US and European riders do not. This isn’t just a US issue…it seems to be more of a generational one (maybe brought on a bit with all the YR focus). And many of the younger eventers are really lacking in this skill as many have not taken the time to work for people who are developing young horses. They lack the confidence to take a risk as well. And when buying a young horse to develop up the levels…you ARE taking a risk and need to have that as your expectation. It will likely take you a few before you find the one that will go to a 4*…as that is something you really can not tell if they will be until they have completed one.