which is more energy-conserving - medium trot or slow canter?

[BigHorseLittleHorse]

I never thought I would be asking this question In the two and a half years since I got him from the rescue, my Arab has NEVER cantered on a loose rein. Cantering for us has always been a head-high, hollow-backed, lead-swapping fight because all he wants to do is gallop.

Well, since we’ve been ramping up the distances in preparation for our first LD, I think he had an epiphany and realized he should probably start conserving energy for later. I think he’s also finally in enough work that he’s not full of excess nervous energy all the time.

So, I had always assumed that most of our endurance miles would be done at a trot - he has a lovely, ground-covering medium trot that he can do for miles at a stretch, and it averages about 7 mph, so that would be fine for a slow LD. But now that he’s discovered the relaxed, slow canter, it’s all he wants to do! When I pick up the reins after our walk breaks, he starts cantering all on his own, and he complains when I ask him to trot.

Distance folks, which gait do you find conserves more energy when you do it for long stretches? I’m inclined to listen to my horse when he tells me he’s more comfortable at this new-found gait, and I’m certainly more comfortable at it, but I’d like to take other human opinions into account as well…

[Shadow14]

I think the trot. I have started alot of distance horses and quickly learned with only a little conditioning they can maitain a trot for a long long time without seeming to break a good sweat.
When loping they break a sweat alot quicker. That said my old guy loved to lope and if it was only a 10 mile workout I would let him pick a nice slow lope and just rock back and forth on him.
Again I think the slow easy trot is easier on the horse and his legs.

[foggybok]

Depends on the exact speed and horse. there is a point in the trot where it uses minimal effort but when you start to lengthen, you lose efficiency, a slow collected canter is not efficient, but a relaxed one is. Some horses have an efficient trot even at a faster gait. If you are really talking just a medium trot, that’s probably better than a canter. Horses will generally pick the most efficient gait at a particular speed, so you might try letting him canter a bit too (unless he’s cantering becasue he’s anticpating even faster work…). We had a horse in our research group that even at a slow canter would use as much oxygen as the rest at a fast canter, but that was because he was anticipating going fast and spent lots of energy fighting going slow.

[Icecapade]

I had a gelding convinced loping… at any speed was much better than trotting and for him it was less energy but he didn’t have the muscles to hold the trot.

Eventually he learned but it took about 2 years to train him out of that.

I think I agree… in the long run the trot is the winner, but some horse’s are just more comfortable with a lope, I think the bigger problem lies in the lead issue and soring up half the horse. but I could be mistaken. -

[jazzrider]

[QUOTE=Icecapade;4019786]
I had a gelding convinced loping… at any speed was much better than trotting and for him it was less energy but he didn’t have the muscles to hold the trot.[/QUOTE]

My boy Jazz agrees with this. He says when you have no muscle and a substantial hay belly, loping is waaay easier. :rolleyes: Hoping we’ll get him in shape enough this summer to convince him otherwise. :yes:

[gothedistance]

@BigHorseLittleHorse;4019653

Distance folks, which gait do you find conserves more energy when you do it for long stretches? I’m inclined to listen to my horse when he tells me he’s more comfortable at this new-found gait, and I’m certainly more comfortable at it, but I’d like to take other human opinions into account as well…

What does your heart monitor say?? Efficiency and energy expended can often be counted by how much the heart has to work to produce the gait.

It also is highly dependent upon how fit the muscles are on your horse. Leg fatigue tends to come on quicker at the canter because of the sequencing the legs have to push off from the ground (one leg at a time per stride) as opposed to a trot which uses two legs to push off from the ground on each stride.

This weekend on a tough 55 my guy convinced me that he still had plenty of gas and fitness to canter the final 7.32 mile leg of the ride. So… I let him…and was pleased to see that his HR dropped easily 15-20 bpm over that of his trot down to 115-120 from 130-135. However, it was a nice gravel road with outstanding footing, gently rolling – just perfect for a very controlled, slow rolling canter to finish out the ride. My guy was also super-fit – even the vets were impressed and said he looked like he could go out and do the whole ride all over again. He is also 19.

BUT… the bulk of the ride (very mountainous) from beginning through the middle up to the final loop was done at an 8-10 mph trot so that my guy had plenty of energy left at the end, and had no leg fatigue either. He was also wearing his gag bit – due to his high level of fitness and his competitive nature. Powerful breaks and great for regulating “race brain” speed. The final leg – the canter leg – was done minus the bit in just a halter. He knew I was carrying the gag with me…just in case.

[KarenC]

I agree with checking the heart rate. I have a morgan mare who has very up and down movement at the trot - not ground covering like my arab. We discovered through the heart rate monitor that she is actually more efficient at a nice canter than at a fast trot - she simply cannot extend her trot like an arab and kind of hammers herself at the trot.

I do think that is the exception, but the heart rate monitor very clearly showed she was working at a lower heart rate at the canter than she was trying to maintain the same speed at a trot.

[BigHorseLittleHorse]

Thanks for all the input - it seems like, regardless of what he thinks, we’re better off sticking to the trot for most of the ride - especially since the slow canter is a new idea for him, so he hasn’t developed the right muscles to do it for long periods of time.

I must say, though, that I am glad he discovered it - it’s so nice to be able to canter without having a raging battle on my hands every time!

[questisthebest]

Depends on the horse really, some horses are trot horses, some are canter, but in a ride you want to do both. You really have to experiment on your training rides to figure out if you have a horse that works best 50/50, 30/70, 40/60, etc. (percentage wise between trot and canter I am reffering to). It is less tiring for the horse to switch around the gaits and the horse is less likely to get sore. It seems to me the horses that work well at longer canter stretches tend to be the leaner horses, like an FEI horse versus a larger horse. Just make sure if you do a lot of cantering to switch leads often

[CosMonster]

I think it depends on the horse too. For most it is the trot, but I know one of my horses who is schooling 2nd level dressage in addition to regularly going on long treks (so I don’t think fitness or lack of proper muscles is an issue) is defnitely more comfortable at a slow canter…I just let him pick his speed and frame, he puts his head down and gets into a rhythm and can go forever. I put a heart rate monitor on him just for fun and it backed me up–much higher at a trot, even though it was a lovely trot. He’s always seemed to prefer the canter, though. Even when he’s loose in the pasture and everyone else is trotting he’s cantering, keeping the same pace with them. Also when I started him he immediately went into the canter when I asked him to do more than just walk. It was nice and relatively balanced, too, and I had to teach him to trot. Never had that happen before. He does have one of the nicest canters I’ve ever ridden. He does flying changes (don’t tell my dressage coach that he has changes at his level :lol:), so I just ask him to change leads periodically on long canters just like I would change diagonals when riding a long rising trot. If he didn’t have changes I would just do simple ones. Not a big deal.

And then my endurance horse doesn’t believe in cantering–she’ll do it if I make her but she believes her three gaits are walk, trot, and dead run, nothing in between. :rolleyes: It took me about a year to get her to reliably canter. There is no physical reason for her not to do it, she just doesn’t like to. I have no idea why. The HRM showed that she’s much more comfortable trotting, although I could have guessed that.

[Beverley]

I read something from one of the wise sages, Matthew Mackay-Smith I think, that said- you pick the speed, let the horse pick the gait. Makes sense to me. I have had horses that much preferred loping along and could do it all day. Even horses that had a very nice and big road trot, going a few miles, preferred in my experience to ‘switch up’ and start cantering after a while. To put it another way, and caveat, I’m no endurance expert, I think it is more efficient for the horse to go in the gait he’s most comfortable with, rather than a lot of arguing with the rider over the rider’s preferred gait.

In my experience, over time, they do develop more teamwork w/rider- I will allow mine to canter if they want after a long time trotting, or, if after a long spell of cantering (or terrain issues) I ‘suggest’ a drop to a trot I get it, happily.

[Icecapade]

[QUOTE=Beverley;4026794]
I read something from one of the wise sages, Matthew Mackay-Smith I think, that said- you pick the speed, let the horse pick the gait. Makes sense to me. I have had horses that much preferred loping along and could do it all day. Even horses that had a very nice and big road trot, going a few miles, preferred in my experience to ‘switch up’ and start cantering after a while. To put it another way, and caveat, I’m no endurance expert, I think it is more efficient for the horse to go in the gait he’s most comfortable with, rather than a lot of arguing with the rider over the rider’s preferred gait.

In my experience, over time, they do develop more teamwork w/rider- I will allow mine to canter if they want after a long time trotting, or, if after a long spell of cantering (or terrain issues) I ‘suggest’ a drop to a trot I get it, happily.[/QUOTE]

I think the problem with this idea is that most times the lope seems most efficient because its easier to do, more momentum… but its not the most efficient in terms of movement and ground cover.

I would hazard a guess that even the heart rate is going to tell you that loping is more ‘effiecient’ because the horse isn’t breathing as hard and he is when he is trotting in a sustained trot because he doesn’t have the muscle strength really to carry that good trot.

Teaching the horse to do a good trot, not a big extended collected one, is really the key to covering ground. and is less likely to trip… I see more tripping at the ‘lope’ than the trot (not to say it doesn’t happen)

but I could be mistaken, and there is an exception to every rule, but if it was really a more effiecient gate, 100 mile horse races would be loped, not trotted.

[Auventera_Two]

The only way to know is to watch the heart rate. My horse is far more efficient in a canter than in a trot. Trotting is difficult for her and I have to constantly adjust her to maintain the speed and rhythm. She gets into a canter and could just float for miles without breaking gait. They’re all different.

I agree its important to train the trot - and I do. But all else being equal, my horse will always choose the canter over the trot, and her heart rate and recoveries will always be better during and after a long duration of canter than a long duration of trot.

The distance riders I’ve ridden with have always done what the terrain dictates. I have an endurance book that says “Never walk when you can trot and never trot when you can canter.” I don’t think that 100 mile races aren’t cantered because the trot is more efficient/easier, but because terrain dictates that you cannot. How safe/smart is it to go careening around switchbacks and narrow mountain passes, climbing over rock at a canter?

Look at FEI endurance - the horses canter and gallop 75% of the 100 miles and they can do 100 miles in 9 or 10 hours. Or less! They’re essentially flat track races without the intense climbing and rocky terrain that we have in the States.

I think terrain dictates trot or canter much more than anything else.

I am a numbers geek and I study the finishing times of rides. Sometimes a horse will complete a 50 in 5 hours, and sometimes a 50 takes 11 hours. One ride will be flat and sandy, fast, easy terrain. Other rides are hilly, rocky and full of elevation changes. So when the going is good, the horse canters a lot more and makes good time. When the going is rough, the horsehas to walk and trot more and so the finish time is slower.

When I see other endurance riders on trail, most of the time they’re cantering. But I ride at the front of the pack where the going is faster anyway. Those horses that are out there to top 10 or win are cantering wherever there is good trail to canter. Sure, some horses are just big powerful trotters and they cover a lot of ground. I’ve seen those too. But many of the horses are in a working canter and they’re moving. Each horse is different.

And FWIW - I agree with letting the horse pick the gait. My horse basically does whatever gait she wants, when she wants. When the trail opens up and there’s a stretch that can be cantered, she just slips into a canter until the terrain becomes such that she has to trot. I don’t mess with her - I let her do her thing. She knows what she’s most comfortable with. I agree that I pick the speed though. She has no idea if we’re only going 1 mile or 100. So that part of the decision is mine, but the gait I almost always leave totally up to her. When she is tired and wants to walk, she’ll walk. She takes care of herself. When she’s cantering and gets tired and wants to trot, she’ll trot. I don’t push her. I’ve always ridden her that way and her recoveries are awesome, heart rates are awesome, and she’s very easy to fit up and stay fit.

[Shadow14]

[QUOTE=Auventera Two;4027293]
Look at FEI endurance - the horses canter and gallop 75% of the 100 miles and they can do 100 miles in 9 or 10 hours. Or less! They’re essentially flat track races without the intense climbing and rocky terrain that we have in the States.

.[/QUOTE]

A2 I think you are a little slow there. The record for the 100 is 6 hours 32 minutes.

[Auventera_Two]

@Shadow14;4027359

A2 I think you are a little slow there. The record for the 100 is 6 hours 32 minutes.

LOL :lol:

Wow 6:32. That is unreal. I’m not jealous though. Those poor beasts look like they’re ready for the grave when they’re done.

[psidio]

100 Mile Ride times

We went to Fun In The Sun in early March down in Florida. The last day, I did the 55 with my 5 year old. It was our first ride together, ( we skipped doing any Limited distances), and he did great venturing out of our rocky Ozark hills into deep Florida sand. When we left home it was 12 degrees. The day we rode, it got up to 87 degrees.

We finished the 55 in 7:57 and had plenty of horse left. This got us the turtle. We were over 2 hours behind the next to last place horse. In the 100 mile ride, they raced to the finish in a dead run. They did the 100 mile ride in 8:01 !!!

I watched the top three horses stand for BC. They looked incredible and fresh as they could be. I was impressed.

As for gaits, I try to switch up through the ride from medium trot, long trot, and canter. Be sure to switch diaganols on your trotting:-) While heart rate usually does drop while cantering, respiration and muscle fatigue may increase. I also do more trotting (higher percentage) on a 100 than on a 50.

Paul N. Sidio
Spokane MO

[Icecapade]

@psidio;4028713

In the 100 mile ride, they raced to the finish in a dead run. They did the 100 mile ride in 8:01 !!!

my favorite part about 100 milers with great horses and great riders who are seriously competing…

those horses are in top shape and they can sprint to the finish, some of my fondest memories are watching horses run down the line. some people might say its sick to gallop a horse at 99.75 miles, but if the rider is good and the horse is good… its a beautiful site.

[Shadow14]

I have also seen strong horses cross the finish line and then drop in agany??
I have seen horses in the middle of the coarse down and thrashing around, getting up only to fall once again.I have seen vets squeezing intervenous bags trying to get more fluid into the horse.
It is not pretty . but I have never seen one die on the ride.

[Shadow14]

[QUOTE=Auventera Two;4027434]
LOL :lol:

Wow 6:32. That ![](s unreal. I’m not jealous though. Those poor beasts look like they’re ready for the grave when they’re done.[/QUOTE]

One of the world class runners from that race
[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/fasi2v.jpg)

[saratoga]

[QUOTE=Shadow14;4029106]
I have also seen strong horses cross the finish line and then drop in agany??
I have seen horses in the middle of the coarse down and thrashing around, getting up only to fall once again.I have seen vets squeezing intervenous bags trying to get more fluid into the horse.
It is not pretty . but I have never seen one die on the ride.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, I have It was my and my friend’s first 50, a multi-day where we arrived on the first day to ride on the second day and saw 2 horses on IV that afternoon. Turns out we parked close to one of them. The next morning when we were saddling up, one of those horses collapsed (it was off the line, but still had the catheter in its neck) and died right in front of us. My friend is a vet tech and rushed over to help. Horrible way to start off our endurance career, and my friend ended up pulling RO that day, just being cautious. I dont know what happened, but the course was a fast and flat one and we had a friend tell us to make sure we didnt overdo it for our first 50 because those types of courses are deceiving.
I think this is one reason why I’m so conservative, about 1400 miles later.