having a discussion.
- In HP, which hind leg pushes sideways?
- In canter, which leg(s) create the lift?
Pretty sure I know, but a friend disagrees, and I cannot get my point across.
In a half pass wouldn’t it be outside leg crossing in front of inside leg while maintaining a slight inside bend.
In canter the lift is from the hind joints articulating and letting the horse sit and step under.
I’m a low level rider but that was my understanding.
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My thinking is like yours on 1/2 pass; but since each canter stride starts on the outside hind, that is the first that has to generate lift, then the inside has to also keep the lift.
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I think the answer is both hinds for both questions, but the canter is harder on the outside hind.
And keep in mind, HP can be at any gait. The canter half-passes do not cross the hind legs. During canter HP the outside hind does more work, just like in regular canter.
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Outside hind for both. Inside hind also has to do its part, but the outside hind takes on the brunt in both scenarios IMO.
For half pass especially, the outside hind. All one needs do is “half-pass” on their own two feet to know which leg can do more pushing. Facing forward, simply walk a diagonal line to the left, crossing your legs as a horses hind legs do in the hp. It is much easier to push with your right leg. You can certainly push harder with your left, but you will rapidly begin to unbalance yourself as you are propelled further left with no way of catching yourself and controlling the motion while maintaining your forward alignment.
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All the legs move the horse sideways and all the legs create lift. The outside hind is working hardest but all four legs need to contribute. If you think of a horse jumping a fence, they push off with their front legs then with their hinds. This also happens in the canter stride. Can you imagine how crooked and uncoordinated a HP would be if one leg went sideways and the others drug along for the ride? Would love for @RAyers to chime in.
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Sorry Bonnie, if you look closely it is the hind legs that come under and allow the front legs to lift.
The front legs do not lift.
It is for this reason that a horse’s ability to do S/I and H/I are important as they strengthen the hind legs, allowing the creation the necessary lift for H/P.
As for canter, the outside hind creates the most energy, followed in energy by the inside, while the front legs support the font end.
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THIS.
The HP/HI exercises require more push from and therefore strengthen the outside hind. SI strengthens the inside hind.
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I have a lot respect for RAyers, but IMO he’s not the one I would go to for definitive dressage info.
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Hey! I am getting better! I score consistent 6s and 7s when I try. But XC and stadium jumping is still where my heart and soul exist.
But yes, I ride dressage with a warning. It says, “Caution Not really a Dressage Rider”
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You’re not just a great eventing competitor, you’re a good sport, too!
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Actually, Bonnie is right in this respect.
The front legs first have to push off to lift the front end of the horse, then the hind legs step into the approximate spot where the front legs were, and push the horses body up and over.
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I have to disagree. In simple terms, front legs pull and hind legs push.
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Pushing is from the leg opposite of the direction of movement, so if you’re HPing left, the RH is pushing, both because it has the room to extend away from the body as the body moves left, but also because all those abductor structures are stronger. There’s SOME “push” from the adductors of the LH, but there’s only so much room for that leg to move across the midline
Outside hind, assuming you mean the front end lift. If you mean the “lift” of suspension, then it’s a function of the while body creating the energy.
the front legs really can’t push vertically, they don’t have the joint flexion to do that. It’s like if you tried to jump without flexing your knees.
Here’s a nice slow motion video of jumping
The elevation of the front end at the last second is basically no more than the last stride of the canter. Yes, there’s a LITTLE spring rebound of the fetlocks, but that’s different from pushing. The elevation of the front end to start the jump is mostly about the hind end coming forward under the horse, and the horse using his head and neck to help the elevation
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Exactly. There is no push from the front legs.
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Thanks all. I knew I was right. Loving the discussion.
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Though I do understand this from a biomechanical standpoint, I found this interesting article (so IOW it’s not that cut and dried):
And another one (I went to a biomechanics clinic hosted by Emily Higgins at Morven Park this past summer - it was illuminating, though since I already study this I found a lot of it resonated):
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Hilary Clayton has research about the role of pushing upward with the front legs in development of self carriage. I thought it was really interesting and surprising when i first saw it.
I am having trouble finding the article, but here is a blog post about it:
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Please don’t get out the torches and pitchforks, but Hilary Clayton also believes that a Baucher bit causes poll pressure, so I am a little skeptical of her research.
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Not looking for dressage info. Looking for physics.
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