For me personally, the transition between novice and training is really pointing out the weaknesses in my riding. I could “get by” at novice not having the perfect jumping position or stability in the saddle. But then I can’t imaging going prelim!
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Oh for god’s sake. I am not competent playing the piano. In fact I suck at it, but does that “marginalize” me? Seriously? Who thinks like that?
I find the break between Training and Preliminary. A good rider can get a marginal but capable horse around Training and a marginal rider can get a good horse around Training. Those compensations pretty much stop at Prelim-both horse and rider need to be on their game.
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Thanks for the humor (and reality check), subk 
For anyone else who was marginalized, which means “to alienate or discriminate against”, I apologize. However, for those who horseshow at any level, you may want to develop a thicker skin since competing is a test of one’s competency!
And thanks to all for the thoughtful replies. I am definitely an amateur approaching my second season of eventing. My young horse and I are having a blast learning to become competent together. Though I no longer have a hectic life schedule, I’m just setting my sights on being safe and having fun.
Kick on!
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Honestly, I think there are two gaps, but for two different reasons. There’s the novice to training jump, which I think often is a mental/bravery/desire gap (meaning “I’m having fun without having to work too hard. This is my hobby, and I like it just like this.”). Then there is the true gap between training and prelim. Prelim suddenly requires a lot more of everything, and while a ammie may have the competence, they may not have the time to invest in lessons, schooling, and fitness (I have found that even with easy TB types, you still need to ride a solid 6 days a week at prelim for fitness and schooling, while at training, you can get away with less). Also, MOST horses can get around a training level, but prelim is where some horses start to find the limit of their scope, or we find out they may not be as sound as we thought with the extra speed, height, and mileage required for fitness, or they just can’t cope with their rider’s mistakes.
Prelim ain’t easy. I rode multiple horses a day, all day, and found it difficult on good horses. BUT, I know lots of people that, for one reason or another, or just happy to go to an event and jump around with their pal at novice, have a beer or glass of wine with friends at the end of the day, and maybe get a ribbon. And that’s ALL they want, for one reason or another. People should be having fun, particularly if they are amateurs. If it’s not fun, what the hell is the point?
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Why my dear SubK, I guess I do. You are quite correct. When you suck at piano playing you in no way are marginalized. You only offend folks that have to listen to you. What marginalizes you is when someone makes a comment like, “What makes a competent Piano Player” and folks look at you and now say…not Subk. Why she requires a gas mask when she plays and that…that type of thinking from people is how we start to separate folks.
But that is harsh so let me adjust. You are a decent piano player, but when asked to perform Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata, third movement you hack the hell out of it. Are you a capable of playing the piano? Clearly because you made the attempt, but you had no competency to make music at that level.
My original point was that asking obtuse questions like that has the potential to marginalize people since they may attempt to compare and feel less than for some reason. It was not the right question.
Better to ask…is Subk a competent piano player? The answer is no by her own voice and her ability to play. Are there folks in Eventing that may not be competent at their level…perhaps, and we have one shining example to look at.
Perhaps lessons would help you…in piano playing.
No one is saying that only riders who compete at Training/ Prelim and up are competent. They’re saying that you have to have a certain degree of competence to compete at those levels. You can be an amazing piano player and not ever play anything but Chopsticks, or you can be a complete beginner and be able to manage Chopsticks but not Mozart (or whatever the competency equivalent for piano is). It’s not a video game where the goal is to move up the levels as fast as possible. Compete where you’re safe and successful and happy and don’t worry about other people.
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To define…
Capable
having attributes (as physical or mental power) required for performance or accomplishment
Competence
the ability to do something successfully or efficiently.
So you see, words matter. Are you capable of performing at such a level? Sure, is what most might say. Are you competent? If understood might yield a different response.
If I see truly smooth rides at Novice/Training versus OMG close my eyes riding at P/I/A, do I say that those Novice riders are not competent at their level and the WTFAYD teams at 1* are, just because they are attempting it?
Something to ponder.
I guess that question got answered.
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Denny did an article several years back, and said fewer than 1% competed at advance, about 3% at intermediate, 7% at prelim, 15% at training, and 75% at novice and below.
So about 10% were prelim and above. Have the numbers changed?
IMO the move from first to second in dressage, where collection starts to come into play, is more equivalent to going from novice to training in eventing, where riders have a bit more difficulty in all three phases and certain mastery to pull it off. I think prelim is more equivalent to hitting PSG, where the horse’s availability starts to really be tested and the training needs to be there to get the right answer, whether it be a difficult combo with turns and skinny on xc or a line of tempis in the dressage ring.
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Brief sidebar, here’s a tip on the search function: if you go to Google and type in whatever your search terms are followed by “site:www.chronofhorse.com,” it does a pretty good job finding relevant results from the forums. For example, I searched “moving up to prelim site:www.chronofhorse.com” and the thread you were looking for that you found by scrolling through your old posts was on page 2. It you search for “upgrading to prelim site:www.chronofhorse.com” it’s the very first hit. Okay, resume!
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Literally what I wrote was “No one is saying that only riders who compete at Training/ Prelim and up are competent.”
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I can’t believe I wasting time on this…but the question of competence for eventing or dressage that the OP was asking…IMO was really at what level do you have to have more specialized skills for the discipline. I believe that was the context of the question and that is how I answered the question.
In other words…you need basic good riding skills at all levels, including the lower levels. And those basic good skills are not easy to obtain OR to do very well. BUT you do not need more speciallized skills until you hit a certain level. Since for eventing…xc is what is unique, that is where our specialized skills come to play. To me…it USED to be Prelim that was the first level you hit where there were more technical xc questions requiring significant specialized skill but with the increase of technicality…I would say now it more at training level that you start to need more special skills. Obviously…as you move up…the skill level needed also does increase.
It has NOTHING to do with how good of a horse person you are or how good of a rider…but at what level in the sport do you really need more speciallized skills. To dressage riders…we really never hit the point of needing specialized skills in eventing dressage…but you have to still be a good rider to ride well at any level.
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The OP used the word proficient not competent.
Perhaps that is a less loaded word.
We use it in education to discuss the measurement of specific skills and the level of adult students.
Proficiency refers to specific skills not an overall level of ability, and certainly not to personal qualities. Someone can be a competent student, but still lack proficiency or just be learning a new skill.
Proficiency is also not the same as talent. You can have basic talent at something yet still need to gain proficiency in specific skills.
And proficiency is also not a measure of future promise. It’s a measure of what you can do right now.
In riding obviously there are, for instance, fantastic Western riders who couldn’t do a cross country jump or upper level dressage without a bit of intensive retraining. No one would dispute their overall competency, but no one would say they were proficient at jumping either.
The question of, what level in a discipline requires a big leap in proficiency, and why, is a useful one.
That should not be mistaken for the larger question of what makes someone a competent rider, or an exceptional rider. Or an overall competent human being.
There is no shame or insult implied if someone is less proficient in a particular skill. They just need to learn it if they want to do it, or not if they don’t.
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