which one would you use?

[skip916]

scenario:
green as a hunt horse ottb- 17hands- strong mare- naturally very forward, big stride, not “mean” about it but will get quicker/bigger in a gallop than is warranted for 2nd flight.

will stand at checks but constantly “flicks” nose/neck up and down until we move off.

when galloping and not listening to STRONG full bodied half halts from me her lovely long neck just shortens up and back and there’s literally nothing left for me to half halt since i am tasting the tips of her ears- but she doesn’t curl to evade my hands- its all in her neck

typical in the ottb sense that the more i give a constant “pull” the faster she goes so i am used to slowing her with my body and almost a loose rein with intermittent “freaking whoas”

she LOVED her first hunt but HAS GOT to be more rateable for me since my back/shoulders/arms were sore for 3 days after! she is just having fun and doesnt want to slow until she decides it’s a good idea- which doesn’t work in a large flight! and i do realize she is still learning but i need more control in case i needed to stop/slow in an emergency situation

so… stupid me forgot my rein stops and so hunted without a running martingale which would obviously help with the “nose flicking”- but as far as brakes go-
when she lifts and shortens her neck the running mart. would be rather ineffective- would a kineton noseband be a useful training tool until she figures it out? just forgetting the running mart. since i think she will quit the nose flicking as she learns more about what the deal is when we are out there? obviously you dont ever use them in conjunction.

she goes in a lozenge egg but snaffle and because she is also my event horse and has a lovely mouth for dressage i am VERY hesitant to bit her up just for hunting b/c i dont want to ruin her mouth or harden it AT ALL- so i’ pretty much not going to put her in anything twisty or waterfordy or curb chainy just due to personal preference.

thanks for any ideas!

[whicker]

Survival Tips

I hunted my UL event horse for many years. This is a different sport from eventing and you are going to have to train her for it, just like you did for eventing. Think of it as another completely different phase. Be patient. You are training for the many years of fun ahead. Hunt horses can still be hunting in their 20’s.

You have a dressage base. Now you have “Forward” that needs a sea anchor. You have a number of different techniques that you can use.

Circling where you have space.

Anything that bends the horse will break up the tilt on the forehand and slow down the pace. You can use many shoulder-ins, turns on the forehand and haunches, leg yielding in various combinations. It is hard to go on 3 tracks or cross legs and go fast. It breaks up the focus on fast because the horse has to concentrate on her feet. Think of it as redirecting the energy rather than stopping it and having it surge up like a wall of water.

Ride with the slowest group in your hunt and stay at the back, so you have room to correct your horse with the above exercises. You should find other riders making green horses in that group, and they usually know how to help you by their positioning and advice. They frequently are professional riders and very competent and caring.

Go during the week when there are fewer horses out. Usually the first of the week hunts are the smallest and the best suited to your purposes.

Don"t stay out long. You have judge when your horse has taken in as much information as she can comfortably handle. Excuse yourself to the master, and go in with another rider. You should be able to buddy with another rider, ask the fieldmaster before the hunt for a suggestion of who would be willing to match with you.

The bitting IS different from eventing. You have much more horse and power than you ever thought possible. You will need more bit, since your horse isn’t concentrating just on you.

You aren’t required to have only one rein like eventing, because the situations are different. You will have time between fences to re-group. I know that you will get many thoughts on ways to bit, so this is what has worked for me over the decades.

I prefer a 2 rein option so I can be soft when the horse is being good and a reminder that the world will end if the horse is ignoring me. I don’t want to lose control and have to make big moves to attempt to get it back. I think it is kinder and safer for all concerned to have a major set of brakes that I can feather as a warning or really use.

What bits are used is tailored to the horse. I have used everything from a classic weymouth curb and double jointed bradoon, to a straight bar pelham or kimberwick. I haven’t done well with the 2 or 3 ring bits. I do use a running martingale on horses that need them. I have used a standing on one that I had trouble holding in a running. He turned out to have Lymes, so there was a good reason for his problems.

Did I mention that you have to be very fit? And carry food and drink? You are going to need more energy boosting than you ever thought possible, because you burn so much or a long time. On the other hand, Boy, do I lose weight when I hunt!:lol:

[SLW]

Ditto what Whicker said. Some horses “get” hunting after the first few times out. Others take some crafting for a season or two and other horses never do get hunting.

Do not be afraid to bit up for hunting. If a stronger bit allows allows you to pull less you won’t be hurting your horses mouth, IMO. I have a mare who is new to hunting this year and she isn’t just “giving” me hunting, we are crafting it this season with mostly good hunts- and she has been out two days a week since roading hounds started in August. She goes in a snaffle in the arena and for our low level jumping lessons and I was hunting her in a low port Kimberwicke with the rein on the lower slot. She began to ignore the bit so I moved her into a low port pelham with a little longer shank than a Tom Thumb pelham- and I can be so much lighter with my hands.

Some days I take her in second flight- we skirt the jumps but most of the time I take her Hilltopping. The mare has a big engine and will be able to hunt all day long happily but she has to learn the slow stuff first. To me, like a driving horse, you need to have a solid “wait” and “whoa” on a hunt horse in order for it to be fun for the rider.

[Doctracy]

I think a horse is more likely to get a tough mouth when you are constantly having to tug on the reins.
I use 3 ring bit with middle piece in the mouth, smooth, sort of a Dr. bristow (three piece snaffle) without the twisted wire.
The curb and shank saves the horse’s bars because you are using entirely different pressure points. This is especially nice for adding hunting as a second or third career. My OTTB also shows in jumping, with either a snaffle or mullein mouth.
I have nerve damage from a spine injury so I know my hands are light. I have slack in my reins except for galloping. My horse has basically learned to have an educated mouth like a higher level Western horse complete with a very convenient neck rein. Riding with one hand leaves a hand for whip or other needs, plus the slack rein keeps my horse relaxed and reaching down with his head and neck.
I’ve found going to more severe snaffles, such as slow twist or double wire not nearly as effective and with the more sensitive TB it will often annoy them and make them worse.
Another nice thing with the 3-ring is that I can use double reins and choose which ring based on how much leverage I need.
I have my husband’s and brother’s horses in a plain d-ring or three piece d- ring. They don’t have hands that are educated enough yet to be able to use the much finer touch a shanked or curb bit requires and they are on packer horses that need very little guidance. They also don’t get to use spurs until they can keep heels down and out of the horse’s sides. But, I’m sure with your experience, you can easily learn to use a leverage shank type bit. It’s far more sensitive and would be good to understand the actual mechanics of the bit before using.

[Beverley]

I’ll just echo that yes, bitting up is the way to go and no, it won’t ‘harden’ the mouth. Quite the contrary, it will keep the mouth ‘soft’ precisely because you DON’T have to haul on reins all the time.

I have seen the mouth of a home bred dressage horse that had gone in ‘nothing but a snaffle,’ said its owner/breeder proudly. When that mouth was held open for dental work, the DVM noted all the really bad scarring on horse’s tongue from that snaffle! So, remember- it ain’t the bit, it’s the hands.

I’ve had horses that ‘did everything’ including hunting in just a snaffle. One warmblood did most everything in a snaffle, I used a western version of an elevator bit (the happy mouth wonder gag) with double reins for hunting, and a rubber pelham for xc and stadium in eventing. And, I’ve had some that ‘just’ went in a pelham for hunting.

It really is much more pleasant for horse and rider to have in place the bit that gets immediate response from the light touch. The flip side, of course, is if the rider does not have educated hands, rider and horse are going to be miserable no matter which bit is used.

[Grasshopper]

@skip916;5231250

she goes in a lozenge egg but snaffle and because she is also my event horse and has a lovely mouth for dressage i am VERY hesitant to bit her up just for hunting b/c i dont want to ruin her mouth or harden it AT ALL- so i’ pretty much not going to put her in anything twisty or waterfordy or curb chainy just due to personal preference.

thanks for any ideas!

What the others have said–you won’t ruin her mouth by using a stronger bit, as long as you use it carefully (i.e. release, don’t hang on it!). My event mare goes in a loose ring french link normally–but I also have a waterford snaffle and a pelham that I use on her when the situation indicates.

I like pelhams as the next step up from a snaffle, as you can generally find a mouthpiece that will work for your horse and ride on 2 reins, just using the curb rein when really needed. I have ridden (other people’s) horses in the 2-3 ring bits with one rein and I think those are harder to use subtly–same with the twisted/wire snaffles. JME.

[pleasantmeadowfarm]

I too, used a pelham on my dressage mare when we first started last season. She schools in a loose ring french link, or Duo bit at home. Now that she’s figured out she doesn’t have to use those big gaits to be out front, and has figured out the game, she hunts in that Duo bit (super soft thin flexible rubber) like a pro!

The more lessons they learn in the hunt field the quicker you can move your TB back down to your bit of choice. As many have mentioned, it’s better to have the stopping power and never use it, than to constantly half halt with little result.

Whicker mentions lateral work in the field. It’s a great way to channel all that energy without the constant half halts. It took my mare the better part of the season to learn what was expected of her, and she’ll now come off the trailer, sigh, and quietly hang with whatever group I put her in! :yes:

Good luck to you!