Which size pen to separate herdbound horse? The smaller the better?

Yep, I completely agree that is what mine needs at this time (earlier, but at least start now). The problem is that when I geared up to get him into the arena and start working more with him, he turns out to be so herdbound and distracted.

Then the work for the day needs to match where he’s at. Either do the work closer to them where he can focus a bit better, or break the work down further where it’s a more simple ask. Or both! :slight_smile:

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That makes complete sense. TBH that’s what I thought putting up the pens would do–he could go in there briefly every day with the mares fed right next to him outside, then gradually increase the length of time in the pen and the distance away the mares are fed.

But, maybe it’s better to not use the pens. I’m just trying to think of what the overall strategy should be–maybe just get him in the arena, feed the mares outside nearby, and work with him in there a few minutes, stopping as soon as there’s even a little progress.

Whatever it is, yes start with a simple ask, then build from there. 100% agree.

And, I appreciate all of the experienced people here taking the time to share their valuable knowledge.

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Agree with @endlessclimb. A “work session” can be walking to the barn/arena/wherever you would work with him, eating a carrot, and being turned back out. And once he’s good at that, it can be leading one lap around the ring and being turning back out. And so on and so on.

I was at a Mustang adoption event where someone giving a demo said something that really stuck with me: if you’re kicking up dust, you’re doing it wrong. “Work” does not always mean doing anything we think of as actual work. You can accomplish quite a lot doing very little.

Just some things to consider! Believe me, I’ve been where you are. I think the pen is a good idea, but it’s not the only way. You can “kill two birds with one stone,” so to speak, by getting him in a routine of doing something. You’ve got this!

Adding:

It’s not going to be all sunshine and roses. Nothing with my baby is sunshine and roses. Master horse trainer I am not. :rofl: But I have raised a lot of babies in my life, in different phases of my life.

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Again, I think keeping HIS brain occupied instead of letting him cook up a reason to flip is a better method to start out with. Then, after he’s demonstrated some progress, flip the script.

But leaving him to his own devices at this stage I believe is a recipe for failure.

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A story from this weekend with my 3yo, who I have probably done the worst job starting of any 3yo I’ve ever had. She’s been sat on with tack and walked a little with a rider, but otherwise it’s just been all stuff on the ground up 'til this point-- longing and some ground-driving/long-lining. She’s also been a weekend warrior of sorts in the sense I never have time to work with her consistently. She gets handled every day, but her more nuanced training has had many interruptions. She’s been off the property exactly once since she was weaned, for a little in-hand horse show.

I got her out for a quick longing session on Saturday. It was like 8:45p and daylight was almost gone, so I didn’t groom her first. I just pulled off her fly gear and threw a longing cavesson on her.

She wanted to eat grass instead of walk forward. I asked her to walk on. She ignored me. I gave her the slightest pressure with the longe whip gently shaking it behind her and brushing it against her hind legs. She leaped forward in an over-dramatic, snorty cross-canter. I ignored it, because technically, she didn’t do anything wrong-- I asked for forward, she gave me forward. I gave her a moment to react, then calmly asked her for a walk, which she complied with perfectly. “Old Texarkana” would have corrected her instantly with pressure on the longe line, not wanting her to learn that overreactions are appropriate… and probably gotten in a battle about it. And then I probably would have drilled her with a bunch of halt walk transitions to make sure she wouldn’t do it again. Now I see it from the perspective of she didn’t do anything wrong and she was very good to get over it.

Then she had a moment where she decided she wanted to wheel and go the other way. I don’t exactly know why, but in her doing that I realized I had kind of gotten myself out of position of my triangle so it was possibly all me being sloppy. I calmly sent her back in the direction I wanted at a walk, on a slightly tighter circle so I could maintain control in case she tried it again. She didn’t. Non-issue.

We did a few walk/halt transitions both directions to make sure we had both brakes and a go button. I asked for a walk/trot transition and she did it really nicely. I had her trot maybe one circle, then asked her to come back to a walk and halt, which she did nicely.

That seemed like a good moment for a break, so I paused to do a little bit of yielding her shoulders and haunches to gentle taps of the whip. She was very good about that, so I sent her back the other direction and asked for one more walk/trot/walk transition. By that point it was even darker out and she was good so we called it quits. (“Old Texarkana” would have still been trotting 'round and 'round) We went back to the barn and I groomed her then, since I still felt that was important.

Not counting the grooming, this was maybe 10 minutes. And less than 1 minute of that was doing anything more than a walk (including her unplanned leap forward). We had mistakes and baby moments, but all in all I felt that was a really productive session.

A lot of people would probably read this and go, “Texarkana you suck.” They would probably have a thousand suggestions of how they would do it differently. Many of them would be very good feedback for me. But you know what? I have a 3 yo who I don’t have time for who can more or less comply like a solid citizen, without spending a gazillion hours or a gazillion dollars on training.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. :upside_down_face:

My only point of sharing this is to encourage you to not let fears of wear and tear or distraction deter you from doing something. Things don’t need to be perfect right now. All you need to be doing is helping your horse build a positive relationship with both humans and the work we ask them to do. He doesn’t want to leave the herd? Ok, do it in the field with the herd. Or make it the goal to take a couple extra steps outside his comfort zone and see if you can stretch that to a few more steps every session. Whatever you can do so it’s positive and builds his want to engage with you.

If I can do it, anyone can.

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One other thought:

I just read your other thread, and you haven’t specified in either thread your general or specific location (understandable).
However, IF you’re willing to name your general area, maybe there are COTHers also in that area who could either a) know someone local who could help you; b) be able to help you themselves, or c) aren’t in the area but know people who are…

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Oh yeah, I have no qualms. There are so few horsepeople around here it’s unlikely anyone local will notice. :rofl:

SW WA State about 30 miles west of Olympia, not far off the intersection of WA State Hwy 8 and Hwy 12. Between Olympia and Montesano, for those familiar with the area. Beautiful country.

I just want to add that it isn’t always how they are raised. Some horse, like some people are more independent and some are more needy.

I had two 1/2 brothers, a full TB and a WB/TB. The full TB was born independent. Even at a few days old I could take the mare out for a short ride and he didn’t care.

The WB/TB was the absolute opposite. I couldn’t even take the mare into the aisle, just outside the stall without a major meltdown and even later, he would get upset if I worked another horse and he was left in the barn even though there were other horses with him.

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No, in fact, what you did was brilliant. You had a positive session and you both walked away feeling good.

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And then look what I see just now from Denny Emerson on Facebook. Exactly what we’re talking about:

"Do the brave ones just go because they are bolder than other horses, or do they go because they are more confident?

Here is what multi-gold medal winning coach Jack Le Goff had to say on the subject—

“Boldness comes from confidence. Confidence comes from success, So it is the goal of the trainer to create many situations that as much as possible guarantee success.”

Farnley Rob Roy here was bold and brave, certainly, but if we take Le Goff’s message to heart, and I think we should, what that means is that Robbie had already had many successful jumps in his lifetime, starting way back over tiny little cross rails, so that by the time he got to the Chesterland and Rolex 3-day events, that success had made him confident, that confidence had made him bold, and so he just went.

Want your horse to just go? Build it in, using bite size pieces. . It is YOUR job."

Amen Denny!

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Thanks, Texarkana, you give me hope.

This thread is full of great information.

Last night I led his mother over a hundred feet away and out of sight. He was still with the other mare so not alone but he didn’t seem to care. His mother is super sweet, good natured, and much, much better about going away from other horses. So, I can blame it on the sire (whoever and wherever he is). :smile:

There’s no doubt in my mind that from birth the colt had these tendencies for emotional attachment. But a more knowledgeable handler would have recognized his nature and given him appropriate handling to minimize the issue from the get-go. Never mind now, I will persist.

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I just came across Yvette with Featherlight talking about this and thought it was very worthy to share.

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Any more updates? I hope you’re having some success.

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Waiting for infrastructure week to wrap up.

Decided to wait on putting up the pens for now and instead start working with him in the arena. Arena renovation was already underway–sprayed with RM-43 to nuke the weeds 2 weeks ago; burning off the debris and harrowing in a couple of days.

The farrier was here today and is getting me the phone number of the local clinician from another client (I had an old number which didn’t work).

So, the colt’s time is coming–I needed some sort of enclosure in case he decides to take off so just waiting for the arena which will be a big help. The farrier–who is a very good horseman–knows the colt and how he handles, and told me I should just start working with him (so doesn’t think I will screw him up just by doing some baby steps on giving to pressure etc.).

Also, today when I was fly spraying for the farrier, the contrast between the colt and his mom was on full display. Mom stands like a statue and has ever since I got her as a largely unhandled 2-yo while Little Lord Fauntleroy acts out the “Just Say No–to whatever the human wants” lifestyle. :roll_eyes:

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