[QUOTE=RidingAllDay;4699407]
In depth?? 21 horses, I don’t think so. I am a clicker trainer, love it, use it and the philosphies for all my training. I use all but the +P quadrant of the protocol. Any good clicker trainer uses -R along with -P. If you think you can ride a horse using ONLY +R (carrot) you are confused and not understanding how training works.
All the good trainers I know usually carry a dressage whip or something long to be an extension of their arms. A whip can be a wonderful tool, it gives the horse more clarity to what you want, instead of them having to guess. Carrots, treats are also a wonderful tool. It need not be one or the other.
All your clicker training really needs to be done before your horse gets hitched. Unless of course you’ve developed a means to dispense the treat yourself while sitting in the cart.
Horse should be used to the whip as an aid, and I would assume that most here aren’t beating the crap out of their horses with their driving whip.[/QUOTE]
Very well said.
I don’t use “clicker” training (at least I don’t think I do 
) and frankly am not much of a trainer, anyway. But do have to school my horses (as we all do) and so have to understand how they were trained and follow along that path. Or change the path and then go that way.
I was listening to Temple Grandin on the radio a couple of weeks back and she was asked about “negative reinforcement.” By this she meant the application of pain. He answer was that she doesn’t like it, seldom uses it, but would never renounce it totally (emphasis is her’s). One area she specifically noted where it is appropriate is “predatory” behavior (dogs killing cats, for example). There she even spoke approvingly of shocking collars, which she normallys thinks are a bad idea.
She did not discuss horse training, but I think the same principle applies. If the equine behavior threatens the human then you use what you need to use (including negative reinforcement) in the interests of safety. But at the same time you would offer the horse an easier and more pleasant route. If the horse is normal they will select that easier and more pleasant route.
Another trainer I know says that a horse trained in only positive techniques knows only two things: behaviors that bring reward and behaviors that will bring reward. These horses can be brilliant performers, but can be dangerous as they don’t know limits. Horses only trained with negative techniques only know two things: behaviors that bring pain and behaviors that will bring pain. These horses can be safe, but will be dull and lack the “presence” that most of us seek. The two techniques, in his view, are a “yin/yang” thing and the trainer must use sound judgement is what to use, when.
For routine stuff where rider safety is not an issue then you’re better off to accentuate the positive, but be willing to “go negative” if the situation demands it. Again, this is not a “personal preference” thing as we have an objective standard, the horse, against which we can measure effectiveness.
G.
