What will the coat color of a white x Grey be?
Has anyone ever seen such a cross?
TIA
[QUOTE=AnastasiaBeaverhousen;8751386]
What will the coat color of a white x Grey be?
Has anyone ever seen such a cross?
TIA[/QUOTE]
Do you mean a grey stallion crossed with a grey mare? There is no such thing as a “white” horse…only varying shades of grey.
Crossing a grey stallion to a grey mare entirely depends on whether they are homozygous grey or heterozygous grey. A horse who is heterozygous grey means there is a 50% chance of the horse having grey foals and 50% chance of the horse having non-grey foals. Homozygous grey means they cannot have anything else but 100% grey foals.
Crossing a heterozygous grey x hetorozygous grey = 75% chance of grey foal, 25% chance of non-grey foal
Below are photos of our grey ponies. As you can see, the shade of grey varies depending on their age. None of these ponies are white, they are grey.
It should also be noted that under the grey, a horse is always one of four base colors - chestnut, bay, black or brown. The grey is in addition to their base coat color. So they could be born chestnut and turn grey. Born bay and turn grey. So if you are asking about that, it is important to know what color the mare and stallion are under their grey coat. 
For example, the first photo is a bay stallion turned grey, the second is a buckskin stallion turned grey, palomino mare turned grey and bay gelding turned grey.
Totally agree with what Daventry said.
But could she mean Albino instead of white? Albinos are pretty rare or do they even occur in horses?
P.
I always describe my mare as my milk white mare, because she is, but I do know full well that she is a grey…just clearing that up before I get a tutorial. 
[QUOTE=Polydor;8751522]
Totally agree with what Daventry said.
But could she mean Albino instead of white? Albinos are pretty rare or do they even occur in horses?
P.[/QUOTE]
Technically, there is no albinism in horses like there is in other animals. I believe a homozygous cream/pearl horse would be the closest thing. If I remember correctly the cream/pearl dilution is on the same locus as albino is in other animals.
The OP could be referring to max sabino/W/etc patterned horse.
1 Like
Uh… dominant white…
I imagine if the horse was G_ x W_, it would just look white. I don’t think the graying process would affect the already non-pigmented coat. Some DW horses aren’t pure white but rather have a roany appearance, in which case I imagine their color hair would gray over time like any other gray.
I would assume it would be similar if the horse were a sabino white, too.
There is no such thing as a “white” horse…only varying shades of grey.
Sure there is! Tons out there! They are “maximally expressed sabino’s” or “Dominant White’s”. However you choose to call them …
They will visually be snow white, some will have some dots of colour throughout their coats or as bonnets on their ears that may fade over time. They are not genetically “white” but rather a base coat colour of chestnut, bay, black or brown - or the single or double dilute versions of those base coat colours.
Here are 3 “white” stallions …
http://stonehousemeadows.com/stallions.html
Arctic Blue who is genetically black, but visually white.
Royalty in White who is genetically chestnut but visually white
Chief White Fox who I believe is chestnut based but visually white
Megson Farms in KY had - at last count - about 30+ white TB’s …
Some are snow white, some have some black or chestnut or bay flecks in their coats …
Dalene Knight of Painted Desert Ranch bred the white TB’s extensively. Jen Tarr in CO at Stonehouse Meadows has a stunning all white WB stallion - Pendragon - that is to die for gorgeous!
It isnt as simple as “breeding grey to white”. You need to know the base coat colour of the grey horse - what colour it was born and with the white horse - what is their base coat colour and then it will be easier to correctly answer your question …
Another note…DW horses have pink skin under their white hair…grays usually…have black skin and start out dark gray/blackish…then fade to white. I think you have the same chance of a white (non-gray) as if you bred a DW to any other colored horse…50% either way…but the gray would fade to white… but still have black skin…just my non-expert opinion as a breeder of DW’s.
Exactly my point! I’ll say it again. There is no such thing as a white horse. Maximally expressed sabinos or dominant whites are not actually white, they are basically a base color + an abundance of white markings. As there are not a lot of these stallions or mares out there, I assumed the OP is talking about, for example, crossing a “white” Andalusian to a grey Andalusian. Both are just different shades of grey.
If the OP is taking about crossing a dominant white stallion to a grey mare, then it becomes a different scenario. Guess the OP will have to chime in and explain further.
We don’t call grays by their base coat color, even though they have one. We just say they are gray.
So why is it incorrect to call a maximally expressed DW white?
Genetically, the phenomenon isn’t all that different. A modifier changes the phenotypic expression of the coat color. (Obviously not in the same manner)
1 Like
I’ve seen color charts that show white as a color. Born white with pink skin. Albino does not occur in horses according to the experts.
Grey I know.
I guess there is new information about what is considered white.
I didn’t know about sabino not being found in TBs. It’s called dominant white now.
Something new to learn about genetics these days
[QUOTE=AnastasiaBeaverhousen;8752014]
I’ve seen color charts that show white as a color. Born white with pink skin. Albino does not occur in horses according to the experts.
Grey I know.
I guess there is new information about what is considered white.
I didn’t know about sabino not being found in TBs. It’s called dominant white now.
Something new to learn about genetics these days[/QUOTE]
So is the horse you are talking about a maximally expressed dominant white?
[QUOTE=AnastasiaBeaverhousen;8752014]
I’ve seen color charts that show white as a color. Born white with pink skin. Albino does not occur in horses according to the experts.
Grey I know.
I guess there is new information about what is considered white.
I didn’t know about sabino not being found in TBs. It’s called dominant white now.
Something new to learn about genetics these days[/QUOTE]
Your question is kind of like asking what happens when you breed a paint horse to a grey. Well, could be a whole host of things.
Those white horses are white pattern genes, maximally expressed, so the whole horse is a white spot. It still has a color underneath. And they don’t always throw that maximal expression of the white, so often produce a lot of very flashy, very loud, marked foals. What COLOR is it going to be? Well, that depends entirely on what color the sire and dam are, as with any other pairing.
Grey is not dissimilar. The horse is a COLOR and fades to grey. Grey is, really, a pattern on top of a color, just like “overo” (for example) is a pattern on top of a color. Greys can start out anything.
Breeding a white horse to a grey will yield whatever color foal one would expect base color x base color, plus the potential for a whole lotta white (potentially the entire horse), plus a 50 - 100% chance that foal will grey, depending on the hetero/homo status of the grey parent’s grey gene.
Greys are not often bred to paints (or these max whites, I would assume) because you risk losing whatever cool pattern you get with the white pattern stuff to the grey. Why breed for something interesting if you’re just going to lose it?
It’s tough to talk about color when you’re really asking about patterns that overlay color. Two different things.
[QUOTE=crosscreeksh;8751675]
Another note…DW horses have pink skin under their white hair…grays usually…have black skin and start out dark gray/blackish…then fade to white. I think you have the same chance of a white (non-gray) as if you bred a DW to any other colored horse…50% either way…but the gray would fade to white… but still have black skin…just my non-expert opinion as a breeder of DW’s.[/QUOTE]
The skin on a grey dominant white would be pink, not black. Grey horses are not born with black skin. It is totally dependent on the color “under” the grey. All the grey gene does is modify the base coat hairs of the horse. So, a bay turning grey would have black skin simply due to the bay coat color. A cremello born with the grey gene would have pink skin due to the cremello. Grey horses that have white markings have pink skin under the white markings. That doesn’t change as they grey out. Any horse that is born with white markings has pink skin under those white markings. So, a maximally expressed dominant white that has pink skin would still have pink skin even if they were born with the grey gene.
[QUOTE=Simkie;8752075]
It’s tough to talk about color when you’re really asking about patterns that overlay color. Two different things.[/QUOTE]
Agreed!
[QUOTE=Texarkana;8751605]
Uh… dominant white…
I imagine if the horse was G_ x W_, it would just look white. I don’t think the graying process would affect the already non-pigmented coat. Some DW horses aren’t pure white but rather have a roany appearance, in which case I imagine their color hair would gray over time like any other gray.
I would assume it would be similar if the horse were a sabino white, too.[/QUOTE]
It just all depends on the phenotype of the W horse. Some have normal markings, even in some homozygous forms. Some are snow white, some are a bit mottled at birth and lose the color, and some retain the roan-y look, a-la Puchilingui. So for the roan-y ones where the skin there is dark, they would be splotchy looking to some degree when wet, as yes, the darker color hairs would white out over time, but the skin would be whatever it was.
