Who actually writes the post-race race charts?

[Where_sMyWhite]

Does each track have someone who writes them or is there one/few people who write them for all tracks?

I’ve wondered this for a while but really had a question this last weekend.

Race 6 at Santa Anita Fast Munny “fell” at the wire. Tyer Baze sounded to be a bit shaken up (he’s off his mounts even today).

TVG, who was on site, stated that the horse had a cardiac event at the wire. Today, TVG again, by one of the handicappers (Simon Brey) who was on site, stated the horse experienced a cardiac event and collapsed.

The chart on Equibase says eased str, fell, vanned.

Does ‘vanned off’ include taking deceased horses off the track? Does the chart writer really not know (from the sounds of this case, the fall was not captured on the race video which usually pans to follow the winner).

I’ve seen a few cases where the breakdown appears, at least to me, catastrophic and yet the chart says ‘vanned off’. Does the chart writer not know? Even if the breakdown looks very bad (I think most of us have seen those ) do they van the horse off to put down? When will a horse be taken off (vanned) vs euthanized on the track? Is “vanned off” a pleasant euphemism for the lay public?

Really just curious how “accurate” the charts are…

[Linny]

The official chart is written moments after the race. They don’t have access to follow up info, like that a horse died or strained a tendon etc. they are only commenting on the race, not its aftermath. Those comments seem accurate. Typically “vanned off” is used as a means of relating not only the fact but that the horse was injured or debilitated, not just “slow” or unwilling. The chartcaller isn’t there to prognosticate. Sometimes they do note that a horse appeared in distress or such, but it’s rare. I have seen notes indicating that a horse was euthanized on the track, but again it is very uncommon.

[Linny]

Also, in the commentary, they have room to write fuller descriptions, the abbreviated piece that will appear in that running line has to be very short.

[Pronzini]

Also charts are for gamblers primarily and realistically that is their focus. Charts are prospective ie can a gambler look at this horse’s performance, trip and all the conditions that the horse dealt with in this race and project the horse’s performance in a future race. That a horse was euthanized is not something a gambler needs to know because there are no future races for that horse.

[sk_pacer]

Each track has its own chart caller. That person fills in a form as the race goes on, is approved by stewards/judges, finished with times sent from the eye in the sky and approved again then sent on to the proper governing body when the mutuel handle and attendance is added.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Thanks sk_pacer for clarifying who writes the charts.

Linny, I know there is the “short” version which is the abbreviated one-liner and the “long” version which appears in the narrative section of the chart.

I get that for a bettor, the past performance of a deceased horse is irrelevant (unless that bettor is looking for reasons to avoid betting on a different horse… if a horse has a family history of breakdowns maybe not a horse to bet on given some of the wonky reasons people give to bet or not on a horse).

Was just curious why a “discrepancy” between what TVG said and the chart said particularly, in this case, the impact to the jock that he was off his mounts for a few days.

[Texarkana]

I’m confused about this “discrepancy” you are referring to. I don’t see it?

Whether the horse had a cardiac event, collapsed, and died or he suffered a catastrophic injury or he just flipped his palate but they were being extra cautious… all three events still involve being “vanned” off the track.

From a PR standpoint, I do think tracks should make point to follow up with all incidents that require a horse being vanned off… but that has nothing to do with the chart.

[sk_pacer]

TVG et al do not have too many people working for them that are/were horsemen in general and worked in the racing industry in particular…these hosts are good at explaining betting to the clients, since that is their mainstay but they generally know SFA about any kind of racing in and of itself, including inquiries, injuries, falls, or accidents and their reporting is generally pretty sketchy as they haven’t a clue. To get reasons why a horse was vanned off, you have to wait for the program to come out be it DRF or something printed for the track and then you may not get the info you think you need.

[gumtree]

Chart callers: The inexact science behind a basic betting tool

This is a good read on the subject from 2013. Unless things have changed the charts are written by someone employed by the Daily Racing Form or Equibase. But things do change all the time these days.

http://www.drf.com/news/chart-caller…c-betting-tool

A good friend of mine used to write charts for the DRF. He also wrote the charts for the sanctioned Steeplechase races. He also worked for the NHL covering games.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@sk_pacer

TVG et al do not have too many people working for them that are/were horsemen in general and worked in the racing industry in particular…these hosts are good at explaining betting to the clients, since that is their mainstay but they generally know SFA about any kind of racing in and of itself, including inquiries, injuries, falls, or accidents and their reporting is generally pretty sketchy as they haven’t a clue. To get reasons why a horse was vanned off, you have to wait for the program to come out be it DRF or something printed for the track and then you may not get the info you think you need.

IMO, the TVG handicappers do a very good job, particularly when they are on site. Most (all?) of them have been in the industry for years either personally (say Simon Brey) or by relationship (Brittney Eurton is the daughter of a trainer, Peter Eurton, based out of SA) or marriage (Caton Bredar). All are examples but for the most part, I would say reasonably knowledgeable.

Of the incident in question, TVG was at the track and their analysts saw the collapsed and reported both then and then later thin the week that the horse suffered a cardiac event. Yeah, I get the dead horse gets “vanned” off but really? I didn’t figure they’d leave the horse on the track for the rest of the day.

My original question is why did the chart not agree with what TVG observed (as the collapse sounded like ti was not caught on the cameras broadcasting the race… the pan had probably followed the gallop out of the winner and didn’t catch a late finishing horse). TVG reported on the collapse as well as that Tyler Baze had been take off the track in an ambulance and hadn’t yet been determined if he was going to the hospital. Tyler was off his mounts today.

I didn’t “need” any info other than why did the chart say something that seemed at odds with what TVG’s on-site analysts personally observed.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@gumtree

Chart callers: The inexact science behind a basic betting tool

This is a good read on the subject from 2013. Unless things have changed the charts are written by someone employed by the Daily Racing Form or Equibase. But things do change all the time these days.

http://www.drf.com/news/chart-caller…c-betting-tool

A good friend of mine used to write charts for the DRF. He also wrote the charts for the sanctioned Steeplechase races. He also worked for the NHL covering games.

Thanks gumtree. Got my question answered, I think, about who actually writes the chart “verbiage” whether the short comment or the longer narrative (longer being subjective for sure )

I kinda get the “vanned off” on a catastrophic breakdown as the choice may be to euthanize off the track rather than euthanize on the track and have to deal with the subsequent “vanned off”. The horses that suffer a catastrophic breakdown and subsequently euthanized after they are vanned off, is the incident still reviewed by the state racing commission/stewards or is that state dependent.

I realize that this is a touchy area for the tracks as no one likes to see the horses die for any reason and was wondering if the ‘vanned off’ was part of some “window dressing” just to hide the unpleasant nature.

The article you linked to was an interesting read, thanks! Sounds like an interesting and kinda cool job if you like watching the horses and getting paid to write about them

[Palm_Beach]

@Where’sMyWhite - everything in racing is state dependent since there is no central governing body. But I’m not aware of a state that does not post a horse that breaks down during a race and has to be euthanized. I think they can order a necroscopy of any horse that dies on the grounds, or even if the horse is sent to a medical facility. If the horse is insured, the insurance company will want the horse posted.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Couldn’t find details but Tyler Baze is off his mounts through this weekend :eek:

Sounds like he landed hard when Fast Munny went down

[Lord_Helpus]

If the horse does 't leave the track under his own power he is always “vanned off”. The chart maker does not know the details, so “vanned off” covers all contingencies.

As for whether horses are put down on the track or are vanned off, that depends on many things. D Wayne Lucas has made it clear that none of his horses are to be put down on the track. Never. When a filly that we had bred and sold at the Yearling Sales broke down, she was almost carried into the van. The man who was on the van that day emailed me the story: She had absolutely shattered an ankle and was hopping on her other 3 legs. But the emt’s were under orders to get her off the track and back to the barn. In this filly’s case, she was in so much pain that the ambulance cleared the opening in the track; the driver stopped and they put the filly down right there.

Yet one more reason that I am not a fan of DWL.

[Palm_Beach]

If they can get the horse onto the van, they take the horse to the pit and put it down there.

I did not know that about Lucas, but I do know that he absolutely has no power or authority over the stewards or the state vet. What they say goes.

[Where_sMyWhite]

LH, what you say is consistent with what I’ve seen… if the horse didn’t leave the track under its own power then “vanned off”.

Sounds however like the chart writers are at the track (from the article that gumtree linked to) so they could look out the window and see if the horse was deceased prior to “getting” on the van.

Ugh on your story about DWL. I know he’s a BNT and I suspect for good reason but having horses that should/will be euthanized removed prior to being put down is

Partly why I asked the question… are the horses, in general, removed prior to being put down for the on-site betting public who may not like the realities of racing? It’s not like the track/TV cameras following on-track activities after the race is finished. I’ve seen nasty breakdowns at the head or down the lane but the cameras follow the race finish and winner gallop out (or who they guess was the winner). The cameras don’t pan back up the track to show anyone what happened with the horse(s) that DNF.

Didn’t want to pursue the morbid side of racing. Wanted to understand better who wrote the the charts and why they might have written what they. All the pieces parts here have helped me understand a bit better what’s going on on with a part of racing that you don’t usually “see” other than reading what the chart writers wrote.

[findeight]

Think of the chart writers as statisticians. They summarize the results. Others might or might not fill in the details but not on the chart itself. The chart writer doesn’t call the vet or horses trainer or interview the jockey for details. The track or State Racing board might provide a report but ownership or trainers may not be willing to share beyond the bare minimum required.

That said, occasionally some details creep in. At Santa Anita the barns are located off the far turn as is the path to and from the track. DRF post race chart included “rank. Right turn top of stretch.”

[Palm_Beach]

They do everything humanely possible to get the horse onto the van before euthanizing it, even if they know they have to put it down. They don’t need to do that in public, and honestly it’s easier to get the horse moved if it can move itself.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Palm Beach

They do everything humanely possible to get the horse onto the van before euthanizing it, even if they know they have to put it down. They don’t need to do that in public, and honestly it’s easier to get the horse moved if it can move itself.

This in of itself seems to be a contradiction in description. I get that putting a horse down on the track is certainly less than desireable.

But doing everything “humanely” possible to get the horse off the track seems the contradiction. It is for the convenience of the track workers to get the horse off the track if the horse can get on the van. It is for the public view that the horse isn’t euthanized on track. It certainly isn’t, IMO, humane in many cases to get the horse to walk on the van and endure the ride to then be euthanized…

Perhaps the word should have been humanly?

[Palm_Beach]

@Where'sMyWhite

This in of itself seems to be a contradiction in description. I get that putting a horse down on the track is certainly less than desireable.

But doing everything “humanely” possible to get the horse off the track seems the contradiction. It is for the convenience of the track workers to get the horse off the track if the horse can get on the van. It is for the public view that the horse isn’t euthanized on track. It certainly isn’t, IMO, humane in many cases to get the horse to walk on the van and endure the ride to then be euthanized…

Perhaps the word should have been humanly?

No, the word is humanely. Where you are seeing a contradiction? If they can’t get the horse loading and moved humanely, they don’t do it.