Who are the new standard-bearers?

[Texarkana]

I don’t know if I agree that sports have shifted so that there are no longer standard-bearers. But I do think the role of the standard-bearer itself has shifted. No longer is it the sage sharing knowledge. I think in our fast-paced, social media influenced culture, we are attracted to the GOATs of a sport. People whose huge accomplishments make good memes and video bites. We are also attracted to the influencers- that faux connection between the personality and fan that makes us want to keep watching/listening/reading their opinions.

Our attention spans are so short, though. I don’t think anyone is going to have a reign over H/J like GM again.

I wonder how the hunters will evolve over the years to come, especially without him to tell us how we should look, how we should ride, and how we should act.

[MHM]

@Texarkana

I wonder how the hunters will evolve over the years to come, especially without him to tell us how we should look, how we should ride, and how we should act.

I don’t think GM had been near a hunter ring with much regularity for at least 20 years. If not 30 years. Possibly more. So the hunters have been evolving without him for a while.

[endlessclimb]

I see mostly crest releases, but if someone has a stellar horse and uses an automatic, it shouldn’t count against them.

[Midge]

@freshman

Just out of curiosity, what kind of release is most commonly seen/taught/rewarded in the upper level hunter ring now?

The crest release is most taught but releases of any type aren’t rewarded. The release isn’t part of the judging.

[endlessclimb]

This is what I was trying to say, but I totally botched it.

[Midge]

@endlessclimb

This is what I was trying to say, but I totally botched it.

Well, no one else has ever done that!

[fledermaus]

General Hospital. GM is General Motors.

[equinelibrium]

@MHM

I don’t think GM had been near a hunter ring with much regularity for at least 20 years. If not 30 years. Possibly more. So the hunters have been evolving without him for a while.

Is it bad that my first thought on reading this was, “well THAT’S why people are allowed to go “crazy” with their wardrobe choices and wear burgundy coats now”?

[glenburn]

Katie.

[Bella]

I think George Morris largely monetized hunters and turned it into a booming business. Before that, it was mostly rich people with their stable riders. Eg Katie rode for Mrs Randolph, Charlie Weaver for Cismont Manor etc etc
George used to go teach in Australia quite a bit and there was never any cruelty, in fact he had a sharp wit that the Aussie riders knew well. He offered a lot of excellent advice and insight and I never heard about this crest release that he was apparently known for. But then Aussie riders are not like ammie hunter riders, they’re cowboys lol. No fear! We learnt to ride the old school way and do everything ourselves

[anon15718925]

@Willesdon

By the 1950s horse shows were booming as civilians took over from the military. The USET coach was de Nemethy with people like Bill Steinkraus, Frank Chapot and indeed George Morris under his eye. The American teams were notable stylists and won a lot of international medals.

I’ve always thought it a little funny in an ironic way that if you actually look at competitive achievements of the rest of the show jumping team during that era, GM was basically the least accomplished. He rode on the USET from 1958 until maybe just after the 1960 Olympics, turned pro to coach, etc. but aside from riding on The Team, individually I don’t think he actually did anything big competitively. EDIT to add: Yet he’s the one who basically marketed himself into being this guru. As someone who didn’t start paying attention to English riding/the sporthorse world generally until approx. 2010, by the time I was actually in the horse world more, he was this crotchety old hunter/jumper curmudgeon who was the subject of a ton of memes (didn’t at least one blog style horse site start spoofing Chuck Norris jokes into George Morris jokes?) which, in hindsight was utterly inane. He was like, this, vaunted god of the hunter/jumper world and frankly no single person should be elevated to such a status in a sport.

Steinkraus was the first rider from the US to win an individual gold at the Olympics in '68, etc. and Chapot was also accomplished (not as familiar offhand w/Chapot’s competitive record to have anything specific to cite past “he won a lot of things”)

I’ve read Steinkraus’s books, “Riding and Jumping” and “Reflections on Riding and Jumping” and I’ve read “Hunter Seat Equitation” and I’ve read “The De Nemethy Method.” There wasn’t anything in GM’s oh-so-famous book that wasn’t in Steinkraus’s or De Nemethy’s work and Steinkraus was hands-down better at explaining everything in writing, IMO. (I mean, Steinkraus, IIRC worked as a book editor.)

(I’m not old enough to have been around in Ye Olden Days but I’m kind of a show jumping history nerd. I’m not a hunter/jumper rider either, always leaned more to eventing but never had the chance to actually do it when I was actively riding and these days I’m horseless and barnless.)

[BAC]

@anon15718925

I’ve always thought it a little funny in an ironic way that if you actually look at competitive achievements of the rest of the show jumping team during that era, GM was basically the least accomplished. He rode on the USET from 1958 until maybe just after the 1960 Olympics, turned pro to coach, etc. but aside from riding on The Team, individually I don’t think he actually did anything big competitively. EDIT to add: Yet he’s the one who basically marketed himself into being this guru. As someone who didn’t start paying attention to English riding/the sporthorse world generally until approx. 2010, by the time I was actually in the horse world more, he was this crotchety old hunter/jumper curmudgeon who was the subject of a ton of memes (didn’t at least one blog style horse site start spoofing Chuck Norris jokes into George Morris jokes?) which, in hindsight was utterly inane. He was like, this, vaunted god of the hunter/jumper world and frankly no single person should be elevated to such a status in a sport.

I am a lot older than you and by the time I was spectating at horse shows in the mid-1960s the team was mostly made up of Bill Steinkraus, Frank and Mary Chapot and Kathy Kusner. I think all of them were better riders than GM who was just another big time trainer by then although he did win a big class at Spruce Meadows on Rio, maybe it was the DuMaurier classic? Before that win he had some disastrous rounds on Rio though, I can remember my friends and I rolling our eyes as they crashed through fences in some classes and we all said time for old George to retire LOL. I think he knew he wasn’t as good a rider and chose to step down before it became too apparent.

[Willesdon]

@anon15718925, I often find a particular author is cited as “the Oracle” but then, on reading them, their earlier sources become very apparent. There is very little new in riding a horse. Largely because the horse has an opinion too!

[anon15718925]

I read an early edition of Riding and Jumping (I bought what I thought was going to be the '68 edition w/Snowbound on the cover on eBay or some such a few years back and was pleasantly surprised in a nerdy horse person way to end up with the '61 edition w/Ksar D’Esprit on the cover. Obv. all this stuff is pretty dated and I absolutely see the datedness, but it’s still interesting to me from a nerdy horse person standpoint to read.) and there was one point where Steinkraus just straight-up quoted this one book that was centuries old even then.

[Willesdon]

Well now, as a fellow horse nerd, hold fast, sit sure and off I go…

Dressage has a particular fascination with ancestors, possibly because of the endless “classical” v “modern” debate. People will happily cite the Frenchman de la Gueriniere as the foundation father as his School of Horsemanship, published in 1730, is still in print. However, he was a real Johnny-come-lately because the Italians, notably the Neapolitans who were part of the Spanish empire, had long been publishing how-to guides to dressage, starting with Grisone in 1550 and Fiaschi in 1556. The latter apparently also taught de Pluvinel, riding master to the French King, who published his big book in 1623.

My father, expert in veterinary history, was once asked for his advice in translating some technical terms used in Pluvinel. He read the proposed text, had a thought, pulled off the bookshelf his copy of Solleysell The complete Horseman translated from French into English by Hope and published in 1696 - and found the exact same text, which made the translation a lot easier!

End of nerding.

[Janet]

As I remember it, in the 1960s, Victor (Hugo-Vidal, but usually just called “Victor”) was a far more influential hunter trainer than George Morris.

[anon15718925]

More on-topic I feel like the closest there might be to a hunter/jumper standard-bearer these days is maybe Beezie Madden. But as others note it’s really probably moving forward going to be scattered among several people. I feel like this has already happened somewhat in other equestrian disciplines, like, I can’t really think of a single major influencer in dressage at any single point, and I could name a few major influencers in eventing’s history.

[glenburn]

Recently, a friend judged the Eq Finals & he made it known, the crest release would take the rider off the card.

[glenburn]

Unlikely we will see someone acknowledged as the new standard bearer since opinions and rigorous standards are not encouraged by the current culture and shows will probably add divisions from a two inch division to a twelve inch division.

[Willesdon]

@glenburn

Unlikely we will see someone acknowledged as the new standard bearer since opinions and rigorous standards are not encouraged by the current culture and shows will probably add divisions from a two inch division to a twelve inch division.

Cynical but probably true. Eventing over poles on the ground, anyone?