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Who *currently* has a SOUND dressage horse over 15?

My old horse didn’t make it past 2nd level due to DSLD, which the vet said was genetic. He was a Holsteiner/Polish Trakehner cross.

I’ve self-selected for talented horses (or at least I try hard to do so, lol). I’ve never had one that was limited to a particular level due to soundness. I have had to retire two due to major injuries (check ligament and hind suspensory).

Hey! I’m trying to cheer myself up, not stick a fork in my eye! That kind of info is for that depressing other thread! :laughing: (jk, I’m all for thread evolution)

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I think this question needs comparison with horses in other kinds of work, including jumping and trail riding. Our mostly recreational horses just stay sound forever but would they if jumping regularly? I did take a 29 year old school master mare in a couple of first level dressage tests a few years back. Well under her capacity. Then I was off with big health issues and she pretty much retired. She was starting to get a bit of lordosis and to fall in the forehand if you weren’t careful but nothing that registered as NQR. We also went on a crazy back country weekend where she was a super star on steep trails. I didn’t know how old she really was until my coachs son said “MOM. She’s not early 20s. She and I are the same age.”

At the risk of jinxing him, I have a 22 YO Swedish WB gelding who is sound and looks fabulous. He’s a USDF Regional reserve champion at I-1, and All Breeds winner at 3rd, PSG, and I-1.

If all goes well, he will be my century ride.

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I am sorry and i understand! I think joiedevie’s answer is the kind of thing i need to see repeated over and over as i am trying to screw up the courage to take a step up from cheap/free/backyard horses, who can be sound all day long, but take extra work, time, and stress/strain to do work they aren’t bred for, to something bred for high performance. I am trying to adjust my expectations…

I guess i was also thinking about the choice of 2nd level as the benchmark in the op. In some respects, 2nd level is the completion of basic training for dressage. Maybe 3rd level. I feel a little uncomfortable thinking about what the expectations are for our horses at that level if a horse who can do that level by say age 10 can’t do it at 15? If the horses at 2nd level or above by age 5 are really consistently breaking down by 15, that is scary and should tell us something.

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My sound older horse will be 23 in April. She can still do all the grand prix. She gets an adequan series in the spring, and daily equioxx (one tab, which is a very low dose for her 1,500lb size). She had surgery to remove a coffin bone chip fracture when she was 15, so there is a little bit of arthritis there, which is why she gets the equioxx, plus probably some age related stiffness. I’ve owned her since she was 7 months old, started showing her at age 7, and achieved my gold medal with her when she was 17. I have two young horses–a four year old (five years old in July) and a two year old (three years old in June). Both are very purpose bred. Both have been supplemented with 3,500 IU natural vitamin e since they came to me as weanlings. Both receive an adequan series at least once a year and have had full panel x rays (22 x rays) and are sound. I am doing a very slow start with them both. Along with the physical maturity, there is a a strong element of emotional maturity that needs to be allowed as well. All of my horses live at home, have box stalls with attached runs and daily pasture turnout. They are fed hay 5-6 times per day (depending on availability of grass) and are turned out together, which makes them happy babies. I’ll admit I do more maintenance when I am showing (Legend, more frequent adequan, spring and fall flexions, etc.). When I showed my mare at FEI, she got weekly adequan shots (I was following what my coach at the time, an international gp rider/trainer who had been on the team for another country) was doing. My coach also did weekly Legend for her horses during show season.

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I actually think that cross training (jumping, hacking in varied terrain, etc.) along with correct dressage work is beneficial to long term soundness.The equine massage person we work with said she loves when dressage horses do some jumping because it helps them work different muscle groups and loosens their backs. I do jump my mare regularly in a jump lesson once a week, all year round. She has actually been jumping since she was 3 (I didn’t start her—would not have done this, but she was started by a hunter trainer). I evented her for years (just a few events every summer–but all the schooling to prepare involved xc schooling and showjumping work).

I think you have to be careful and make sure that your horse is fit enough and most jumping is done in good footing. I do see dressage work for horses similar to “body building” and it’s always good to balance it with some cardio and stretching otherwise you end up with the scenario where the weightlifter can “lift the house, but can’t run around it” :grin:

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I think the threshold for ‘sound’ goes down with age. I know I have learned to ignore my own chronic aches and pains. Otherwise I’d be getting medical attention all the time :joy:

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I have a rising 23-year-old who showed up to PSG and trained a bit higher. Still going 5 days a week working at Third Level, sound and happy. X-rays show the kind of arthritis you would expect at that age, but he shows no sign of discomfort at all. Sire is Rotspon.

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Currently have a rising sound 20 yr old who is a schoolmaster of piaffe and passage. He’s teaching me the ropes of FEI riding. He’s in full work and cross trains like sip2 mentioned. My 1.3m jumper was retired at age 25 sound and passed away at 30 (pasture accident fractured pelvis). My 3rd level dressage horse was retired at 21 sound and passed away at 25 (twisted colon). Lost my sound 15 yr old PSG horse to strangulating lipoma of the small intestine.

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I used 2nd level as the benchmark because that’s where they begin to sit. And if they can’t stay sound when they first are asked to sit then that’s pretty bad. And yes, if a young horse can’t stay sound when first asked to sit, then what does it say? It is very scary, I agree.

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I try to jump my OTTB a couple times a month in summer and we do a lot of trail work (both long trail rides and hill work/dressage on the trail). Winter is hard bc we are stuck inside and the barn is too busy to pull jumps out very often. We do a lot of fake trail rides and poles. He also gets really tight in the winter bc his muscles can not handle being cold at all. We are counting the days until it’s nice enough to be outside and go for a gallop.

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I retired my OTTB at 20 after we lost my trainer for my own safety. He was sound without maintenance (left hock is fused, so he did have hock injections at one point), and barefoot. He is a HARD bucker which kept me from showing so we never schooled changes. Other than that, he easily did the I-1 pirouettes and lateral work, his half steps were easy, he had an amazing extended trot. He last got me off in 2012, but has given me whiplash too many times to count. Not worth it when I have a horse who is a joy to ride every day.
A friend’s mare was getting ready to show PSG when our trainer passed, and she is still sound and working, I think at 17. She was schooling piaffe, passage, and tempis. She has one hind cannon bone significantly longer than the other, which most people notice in her hips. I believe dressage is the reason she is still sound.

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Charlotte Jorst was getting good scores at Grand Prix in CDIs on Nintendo when he was 19. That’s pretty impressive.

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Me! He’s currently 23 and we are going to do hunter paces this spring, but he still knocked out a line of 3s and 2s this week.

He was still winning I-1 at 20 and was schooling most of the GP at 21 before we changed gears, learned to jump and entered local hunter shows for fun.

ETA: my profile pic is him at 20!

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It’s just hard to know if it tells something about the genetics, the living situation, or the training. I didn’t start my WB until she was a little over four, and I’m glad, because even since then she has grown and filled out an astonishing amount (she’ll be seven in April). I read somewhere recently that these horses should really be given two years of basic work to build up the necessary strength before working them up the levels. That matches well with my experience with my mare, who has just in the last 6 months or so started feeling like a legitimate riding horse. A horse that is schooling second at age five has probably been started at 2.5-3, pushed, IMO, and add to that being kept in a box stall with limited turnout, is a recipe for future problems. Of course time will tell on how things go for my mare, but I’m committing this full year to solidifying her basics and getting some experience at schooling shows, so we won’t even really be hitting the recognized shows until she is eight, whereas many horses are fast-tracked to FEI by that age.

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Did 3-4 on a 25+ year old Morgan gelding who refused to be retired. Best comment was nice young horse, can’t wait till he matures and settles. I have a feeling the judge needed glasses that day :slightly_smiling_face:

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I think I was misremembering the FEI young horse tests when I said 5. I’ve just reviewed the tests - there’s a bigger jump in difficulty between the 5 and 6 year old tests than I remembered. The 5 year old test has 2nd level elements, but it is easier than 2-1. I should have referenced the young horse tests vs. 2nd level too, since that is what I actually had in mind when I made that post. On the other hand, the expectations for quality of gaits are higher in those tests than in national tests.

2 years for the basics + fitness has been consistent with my (amateur) experiences as well. I remember seeing a USDF magazine cover a few years ago with an absolutely stunning horse on the cover that looked like at least 3rd level balance and was surprised to see it was a training level class. That balance shift is a big hurdle for the “not born with it” set. But again, if we look at the young horse tests, 4+2 = 6 means the FEI is marking ~3rd level elements as the completion of basic training.

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LOVE this!