if a professional rides your horse in a show, who gets the prize money? What about for Derbies?
My trainer shows my horse sometimes and when I pay the entry I get all the prize money and when she decided to take him to a show (that I hadn’t planned on doing and wasn’t going too) and so she said she’d pay, she got the money 
I do, though, pay her a set fee for each class she rides him in when I’m at the show and am getting her to show him for me!
Typically the owner pays the entry fees and receives the prize money. Some pros require that a portion of the prize money be shared with them as part of their “fee”, but all of that should be negotiated up front before the horse steps into the ring.
If there is a rate sheet or a contract, that might inform your specific situation.
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I understand that shows typically first apply the prize money to offset the entry fees so often no one sees acreal cheque unless they win something huge?
I had a junior rider who was half-leasing my horse, take him to a three week long show (without my permission) and win the prize money because the junior rider put down she owned my horse on the entry form. Her trainer, formerly my trainer as well, told her to do it. I think the trainer took the prize money although the rider might have split the prize money with her. They did not tell me who got it, but it was not me.My horse won in the hunters - not equitation - so it was really my horse that won the money. I did not get a penny nor was the issue ever discussed with me as the horse’s legal owner. I immediately pulled my horse out of of barn after a huge fight with the trainer, who later threatened to sue me for sullying her reputation. She never went through with it because everything I said happened was true, and the only person I reported it to was the show manager. In truth, I did not care about the prize money only the crooked and underhanded way they went about doing it. So, that’s my story. According to the rule books, the owner of the horse gets the prize money. That show was the Great Lakes Equestrian Festival in Michigan. The show manager sided with my trainer and said the girl who was riding my horse was going to get the prize money - a clear breaking of the USFF rules. So, make sure you always get the prize money decision in a signed and notified document. It’s a war out there!
Also, my main issue was that they lied about who owned my horse and tried to tell me it was “an honest” mistake.
In Canada most entry forms have boxes where you check for either the rider or owner to get the prize money… I always check owner as most times I’m the owner and one of the riders (along with my trainer) … Along with me being the one to pay the entry! Just out of curiosity because it’s not something I’m used too, why would an owner get any money though if the rider is paying all entry fees?
To be fair, when someone leases a horse, pays the entry fees and wins prize money, the expectation is that they will keep the prize money. Leasing entails conveying certain rights of ownership for a period of time, to the lessee. The rights conveyed typically include the use of the property and any benefits, or liability that entails.
Maybe @Janet can weigh in. What do the USEF H/J rules say about leasing? Who has the legal right to the prize money? Lessee or Lessor?
On a separate note, if I’m a show manager, it isn’t my place to settle disputes between lessees and lessors. Hornets nest. Steer clear.
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Many of the shows used to do this all the time. Then, under the Obama administration the $600 1099 rule was implemented and some shows stopped applying the prize money against the show bill altogether. For what it is worth, my experience is some of the smaller shows still apply prize money against the bill. The bigger shows send a check.
This was a half lease and the rider showed him without permission, so I think that’s a little bit different than a properly registered with USE full lease.
Also, legally, leasing does not “sell the rights of ownership” to the lessee. An owner can sell a horse. A lessee cannot. An owner can show in amateur owner classes. A lessee cannot. An owner can give a horse in her will. A lessee cannot, not even during the lease term.
If she did not have a properly registered lease, the owner should have had to sign the blank and yes the office should have questioned it.
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Not an expert on this, but I only found two relevant rules.
One says that, in the event of a guilty finding by the hearing committee, the OWNER forfeits the prize money.
The other is in the amateur rules where it says that accepting prize money as the OWNER does not hurt your amateru status, but that accepting prize money in another capacity DOES affect your amateur status.
So a leasee (over 18) who accepts prize money may be risking her amateur status.
But the general convention is that the prize money goes to the person who paid the entry.
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He who pays the entries gets the prize money unless there is a contract between trainer/rider and owner.
I showed a couple of horses in the AA’s that belonged to others that couldn’t go that weekend before they changed the rule about AA’s paying all the entries and I would just leave the checks in the office to apply to their bill that their trainer would settle later.
There was no lease in this case. Trainer rode horse in Derby without the knowledge of owner. Owner was not on the show grounds at the time of Derby. It was an International Derby and horse had a top 3 placing. Trainer later offered to pay entry fee, when questioned by owner. If there is a USEF rule regarding this, owner would appreciate knowing.
I could have used a better choice of words. From a legal perspective, leasing entails conveying certain rights of ownership to the lessee for the period of the lease. I didn’t mean to imply a lease conveys all rights of ownership, only those rights outlined in the lease. Thanks for the opportunity to clarify.
Typically, the owner of the horse would receive any earnings won at a show. Many owners do have an arrangement with their trainer or pro rider regarding what percentage of the winnings they would be entitled to if the horse were to place, especially in the premier events that have a larger purse up.
I would imagine the only recourse the USEF or a USEF rule may have for something that happened previously would only conclude in the prize money being forfeited. Did the trainer add the derby to the owner’s bill? Was there a check for the placing and who was it sent to? Owner or the trainer? I would think that the best course of action would be, in the event the trainer has had the check sent to them and intends to keep the winnings, is to come to an agreement where the owner is paid out in some capacity (entry fee or entry fee + % of earnings) and for the two to part ways. If the owner intends to stay on with the trainer despite this transgression, there obviously needs to be a discussion surrounding boundaries. It’s hard to know without knowing the HO and trainer involved, but with some arrangements, the trainer is sometimes so involved that they may have felt that they weren’t doing any wrong in entering the derby.
There is a process for registering a lease with the USE. If properly registered that relieves/reduces the owner of potential care/custody/control liability and signing entries
Unless otherwise noted on the entry form, all prize money goes to the owner. Owner is required to list their social security or tax id# on the form. The Check willl not be mailed unless tax info is given. Unless prior arrangements are made with trainer getting a percentage of the prize money from the owner, no funds are due to the trainer. Most trainers have that spelled out in their training agreement. At least the smart ones do. This is separate from any ride fee that trainer may charge for riding the horse in the class. For a lease situation, whoever pays for the class gets the prize money. The entry form has a box you check and the rider needs to provide their social security number.
