Who is the up-and-coming trendy saddle maker?

[Ponygirlmom]

I’m starting the search for a used saddle for my daughter and I need help predicting the future…

Fit for both child and horse is the top priority, but I’m also keeping an eye on resale value. CWD, for better or worse, seems to have been the top in my area for awhile - they’re in demand and thus seems to hold their resale value well. I’m wondering, however, if they’ve been “in” for long enough that they’re on their way out. (I work in interior design, and major trends tend to have a 10-ish year cycle; if saddles have the same thing, it would seem like CWD may be nearing the end of its moment.) If so, who is up and coming? Who is the next “in” saddle maker?

I should add, while it would be great if it were a wool flocked saddle I suspect it isn’t. Since we’re looking for a saddle that will work for two to three years (as she’ll likely need a different seat size at that point), I’m prioritizing resale over longevity/ability to reflock. The consensus among those I’ve talked with seems to be that wool is better, but also doesn’t hold its resale value as well.

[gertie06]

Personally I think wool-flocked is making a comeback. My vote is for Black Country or County. You’ll be able to resell either. And fit-wise, wool gives you a big advantage over foam.

FWIW, there’s a reason there are so many used CWDs for sale. Many people dislike them.

[StormyDay]

Voltaire is very popular. But CWD, Devoucoux, Butet, etc are popular also because they sponsor riders and trainers, so the saddles are pushed onto clients. That’s really the main driving factor behind what saddle brand is ‘popular’ right now.

[LSBC]

I bought a used Devocoux in 2010 ish and sold it for just $1K less than I bought it for in 2021. Super worth it to me.

[beowulf]

Pay attention to the brand that appears to have a surplus of available models on the market - especially if those saddles are newer (last 10 years or so). That’s usually a good indication of how well they’ve served the people that purchased them. That is to say, they will likely serve you just as well or not at all.

@StormyDay is correct. The driving factor for popularity isn’t necessarily demand or inherent quality, it’s who is endorsing what brand that day. Many professionals flirt with a revolving door of sponsorships; going from one brand to the next and then back again over the course of several years. Some brands – like CWD – employ an exclusivity contract with the trainers they sponsor – meaning the trainers can only ride publicly in their saddles and some go so far as to say that only that sponsor can be in their barn. This gets pushed onto the trainer’s clients, who are often told that they can’t use an outside brand or saddle fitter due to the “contract”. FWIW: This contract is not enforceable with clients, but some don’t know any better and are pressured into converting to the brand du jour when they hear the word ‘contract’.

Wool is objectively better in terms of flexibility. This is the first I’m hearing that wool in specific doesn’t hold its resale well. Foam is not adjustable, for the most part - some brands will “shave” the foam back, and some horses will tolerate a less forgiving saddle fit – but wool is the leading material for a reason.

What they might have meant is, the brands that are typically wool don’t hold their resale well. That may be true for some brands. It’s not true for others. I could sell my 16 year old BC (wool) for more than what I paid for it 7 years ago. Same goes for my Ainsley and my Kieffer. My Stubben, however… probably not. Stubben doesn’t seem to hold its resale well, in part because there are so many newer models saturating the market because they, like certain french brands, have stepped into the sponsorship game and are pushed on clients.

First order of business would be, is this a saddle for a specific horse?

[2DogsFarm]

Sad to hear Stubben has gone down the Sponsorship path
I just donated a 32yo Portos A/P to a theraputic program.
It was still eminently rideable.
I replaced it in 2015 with a semi-custom Maestoso when the Portos failed to fit my WB.

Advice to OP:
Look for a classic brand for your discipline of choice.
A 20+yo saddle should work & be reasonably priced.
IMO, the new “popular” brands have yet to prove themsrlves.

[joiedevie99]

Devoucoux, Voltaire, CWD, and Antares are too well entrenched to really go out of style. You see demand for Childeric, Butet, and Tad Coffins too. Equipe seems to be on the rise.

[greywithchrome]

I have had good luck reselling CWDs, Antares, and Childerics, however I find that more and more people ARE looking for those wool flocked adjustable saddles - Countys are a big name that are wool flocked, and I just got a Kent and Masters that I actually love. The French saddles get custom fit to a certain horse and then that’s just how they are. If you do buy a French saddle for resale make sure it is one that is built to be a general fit or “pro” fit.

[atl_hunter]

Equipe is on the rise because they make a fantastic, well balanced saddle. I have the EK EVO and my horse loves the carbon fiber tree! I love how my leg does not move in that saddle - for my body type the balance is incredible. I’m 5’2’ and have a short leg, longer thigh, and am so short in my midrise that TS low rise come way above my belly button. I think the Equipe works for me as it’s made by Italians, who tend to also have small stature.

I have a Voltaire with pro panels that I also use as a back up and for lessons at another barn and it’s funny how I struggle to get my heel down and keep my leg quiet. I’ve been fitted and it’s definitely the right size - it just rides a little differently.

At the same time, CWD puts me in the worst chair position. Devoucoux’s Biarritz is an amazing fit and I’d buy one in a heartbeat. The Butet also has been amazing. I really loved my old Amerigo DJ - it was a great saddle but didn’t fit a variety of horses so I wasn’t able to keep it after selling my horse. I miss that one! But again - Italian…

I hate that trainers have their customers buy a brand because it benefits them when it’s clear not all brands work best for all riders. People, break free!! Be the change you want to see!

[equinelibrium]

@atl_hunter

I think the Equipe works for me as it’s made by Italians, who tend to also have small stature.

This reminded me of a discussion I had with a friend after she got an English made saddle. She had tried several French brands but none worked for her. She said the English ones fit better since she was built more like a thick English woman than a skinny French one. Made me laugh and I’m right there with her with my English made saddles!

[Scribbler]

@Ponygirlmom

I’m starting the search for a used saddle for my daughter and I need help predicting the future…

Fit for both child and horse is the top priority, but I’m also keeping an eye on resale value. CWD, for better or worse, seems to have been the top in my area for awhile - they’re in demand and thus seems to hold their resale value well. I’m wondering, however, if they’ve been “in” for long enough that they’re on their way out. (I work in interior design, and major trends tend to have a 10-ish year cycle; if saddles have the same thing, it would seem like CWD may be nearing the end of its moment.) If so, who is up and coming? Who is the next “in” saddle maker?

I should add, while it would be great if it were a wool flocked saddle I suspect it isn’t. Since we’re looking for a saddle that will work for two to three years (as she’ll likely need a different seat size at that point), I’m prioritizing resale over longevity/ability to reflock. The consensus among those I’ve talked with seems to be that wool is better, but also doesn’t hold its resale value as well.

The French saddles with their calfskin leather do wear out faster.

Honestly if you get a 10 year old County or Stubben for $1500 or $2000 and have it reflocked, you are going to be able to sell it on in the same price range. Remember County was the desirable h/j market until the French foam fad. 15 years ago everyone wanted a County. They are objectively excellent saddles if they fit you and horse.

[Calvincrowe]

I ride in a CWD…but I am going to get the County rep out in the next 10 months to fit me and my horse so I can see if my beloved County saddles will work with my horse. I had an Innovation that absolutely fit me the best of any saddle I’ve ridden in over the last 40 years. Beautifully made, wore like iron, wool flocked, great service, super resale value. Not trendy. At all. But I’ll ride in what works best, trends bedamned.

[IPEsq]

There are a few of the French brands that offer wool as an option–Butet and (I think) Antares come to mind. I’d say those hold value better than their foam counterparts because they are more “rare” on the used market.

Equipe makes a great quality saddle, whereas the leather and manufacturing on the LIM brands has been steadily declining IMO (while prices go up and up). They are very popular in Europe but still not that well known here.

[touchstone]

I think this board is populated by very knowledgeable people who really prioritize horse fit, and, thus, there are a lot of enthusiasts for wool-flocked English brands.

But, as I understand your question, you are looking for something that is good enough and that you can resell in a few years for a similar price. I am assuming that your daughter’s horse is a fairly typical shape and size.

I agree with the person who advised you that some of the more customizable brands are the hardest to resell–in part, because they ARE so custom-fit that you have to find the exact right buyer whose horse is shaped like yours and knows what they need. (And, honestly, if you are doing big h/j shows, they are not trendy in that market.)

I would vote French, in a fairly standard flap and panel configuration, and I would vote used in the <$2k price range. Most of the saddles come in various leathers now. Grain wears the best, so it is mostly likely to hold its value. I mostly ride in a Butet from 1997 that is in gorgeous condition, which is not an argument for that particular brand so much as an example of how something of similar age in grain leather can hold up. I am confident that, having ridden in this saddle for several years, I could resell it at no loss tomorrow.

I do a fair amount of monitoring the used saddle market for French models, and it is fairly rare that they trade for less than $1,200, even if they are pretty old and have obvious wear. But there is a lot of variation in the $2-5K range, which suggests to me that saddles lose value rapidly at those prices. Anything you buy new is going to lose value particularly quickly, especially if it is customized in any way. I would not buy a used French saddle that needs repairs other than new billets–those costs can quickly dwarf the purchase price. Even reflocking them is $$$$.

I personally do not enjoy CWDs, but I do not think they are going out of style so fast that they would be a bad investment, assuming that your kid likes riding in one that is appropriately priced for its condition.

Another option is just buying a quality saddle that is so cheap that you don’t care about reselling it. Some posters have mentioned older Stubbens and Counties. Those are high quality saddles that are often available in the three figures.

One more thought: I would never do this personally, but some of the high-end manufacturers have programs for children where, if you buy new, they let you replace the saddle annually for like $500 as your kid grows. That takes the trade-in process off your plate, but locks you into one brand.

[StormyDay]

Almost all will do wool upon request. It’s an up charge, but they will do it. CWD will even make a hoop tree saddle upon request; it’s really more about how good your rep is. Some will refuse to do these things not because the company won’t, but because they don’t want to do that.

Also, this is just an aside; foam flocked saddles have come a long way. The technology has improved significantly since when they first started getting popular. Some of the brands can even do major adjustments to foam saddles. I have one that got sent off to the devoucoux HQ to have adjustments made, and realistically the adjustments they managed to do for $500 was way more than what anyone would have been able to do with wool. It went from a standard medium tree to a MN with huge shoulder relief cutouts, added foam over Trapezius, work to the back to make it more banana shaped for his body, etc. I just had a wool saddle reflocked and it was $350. So even cost wise, not a huge difference.

IMO wool flocked vs foam flocked is like how some people say they have never gotten a better nights sleep with a memory foam bed, while someone else says their back hurts every time they sleep on one. It’s just preference difference and one is not better than the other.

[Ponygirlmom]

Thanks all. Super helpful to hear different thoughts.

@beowulf Yes, it’s for a specific horse. We’re working with an independent saddle fitter who is awesome but doesn’t sell used saddles himself, just provides guidance in figuring out what will work. He gave me some specific things to look for to fit the kid and the horse and will check out whatever I find.

@gertie06 I would be EXTREMELY reluctant to go with a custom CWD based on others’ experience in my region and beyond. I have a little more willingness to consider a used saddle, as we’ll be able to test it out before committing to anything.

@touchstone You hit what I’m looking for on the head and I appreciate the advice. The good news is that the horse will likely take a fairly standard configuration as long as it allows for his broad shoulders and a wide spine, which most seem to do. The child is harder to fit - tall for her age (which, you know, still means under 5’) with the leg length of someone 6" taller. That said, I think we can find something that works. And yes, she rode in a friend’s CWD yesterday and loved it (though might have loved anything more comfy than her very old, flat as a pancake starter saddle!) We checked out the children’s programs and concluded that CWD and Devoucoux’s programs, which are leases, make zero financial sense - close to $ 7,000 over three years and you don’t even own the saddle at the end and have to either buyout the lease (for I’m sure a few thousand more) or start a new lease. Voltaire and Antares are better, with an initial saddle purchase and then a yearly fee that pays for “trade up” rights, so to speak. If we can’t find used that works one of those two is my backup plan.

It also would seem used saddles are just hard to come by around me! I talked to the other independent fitter in the area and he has nothing used in the size we need, nor does our local tack shop, nor does the tack shop a few hours away. So I’m looking at going through reps or ordering trial saddles via the internet. I’m not thrilled with going through reps, but may end up starting there just for convenience. One who seems better than the others has something that might work that he’ll bring out next week sometime for a trial.

And yes, I REALLY dislike the system where brands are rewarded for sponsorships, provide poorly trained reps, and give mediocre (at best) customer service. I hate how some of the reps treat the customer (making it like pulling teeth to get info, treating me like an idiot for wanting to talk to them directly rather than having them talk only to the trainer, etc…) There’s one in particularly I REALLY don’t want to buy from based on her behavior, but am working to set my annoyance aside. I generally am suspicious of anything that’s as “in” as some of the brands are because, well, that’s how I’m wired. That said, I’m not going to change any of that with this saddle purchase, so I’m just making the best of the situation and not let my personal annoyance impact making the best decision possible.

Thanks again, all!

[MrsFitzDarcy_amp_Feliks]

I just bought a used Devoucoux through Devoucoux. I got a smoking hot deal on a trial saddle. The southwest rep, Page, wasn’t even sure why it was priced as low as it was ($2650 for almost new). I had issues with HQ getting it shipped. Page didn’t even know why it took them so long. Page was great to work with. She treated me as if I were buying a fancy new saddle even though I am a budget client. She taught me about the codes on the stamp, told me what saddle configurations would be good for my hard to fit horse. On her next trip to the area, she is coming to check fit. HQ can reconfigure the panels if necessary although it will cost me $500-600, which I don’t have. The fit is pretty good, though. It could use a little more in the front. If you are in the southwest, I highly suggest Page.

And oh, I almost bought a Meyer Act 2. They have a panel configuration that works well on my horse. They are not as well known, but are very nice saddles.

[Spud_amp_Saf]

Have you considered Prestige? I am a huge fan, and I have sat in almost every brand of high end saddle. Prestige has flocked panels on various models, and I don’t see a lot of the newer ones out there for sale used. I do feel they are one of the best options for rider balance and horse comfort.

[soloudinhere]

As far as resale value goes, consider the absolute dollar as well as the percentage.

If you buy a used CWD for let’s say $4k, and you resell it for $3k, that feels better somehow than buying something British for $2700 and selling it for $1700, but the absolute loss is still the same.

[vxf111]

Agree, I think kid-sized saddles are a different market than what a lot of people here are thinking. If it’s a recognized non-junk-level name brand (whether uber trendy or just known), a normal size/shape/color, and in decent condition-- you will resell it without issue. Everyone needs kid sized saddles and no one wants to buy new. This is a little different than the adult market where people are a little more picky about trends.