Who knows the history of EQ102 - Equitation horses are not required to be sound?

[Renn_aissance]

Here is the language of the rule, excerpted:

EQ102 Judging
SOUNDNESS. Unsoundness does not penalize a competitor unless it is sufficiently severe to impair the required performance. In such cases, the imposition of a penalty is at the judge’s discretion.

Does anyone know the history of why the rule is written this way?

I hate this rule. I am not currently an active USEF member, but I am going to find one who agrees with me and collaborate on writing a change proposal. I assume that, just like signs that say “Do not put children in the bear enclosure,” there is a reason the rule exists. I am certain that it is not because we all agree that a horse who trots into the ring with his head bobbing should be competing on this day.

[Highflyer1]

I know back in my mom’s day things like a missing eye or mild roaring were considered an unsoundness. But I guess it could also cover the horse that throws a shoe while jumping the last fence and is suddenly lame for a few strides and other randomness.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Equitation is in theory judged purely on the rider, so pulling a rail that’s supposed to be due to horse versus rider error isn’t penalized like it would be for a hunter or jumper horse.

I guess this is so if a horse looks hitchy, it shouldn’t affect the rider’s placing, if the rider is piloting correctly?

Separating the two is always a bit iffy in actual judging practice though.

[Tha_Ridge]

I’m guessing that it was initially intended as a way to make the equitation more equitable and accessible, but has clearly been interpreted to mean that 3/5 lameness at a national-level final is A-OK.

[supershorty628]

Imagine prioritizing a placing, or a round in the ring, over the welfare of the horse, to the point of making a rule encouraging it.

I’m disgusted.

[Railbird]

I would venture to say at least 5 of the horses in the flat callback were past that when you watched the camera angle with them traveling toward you on the long side.

It does beg the question of the legends I heard when I was a junior that the big barns would bring spare horses to the finals in case one of the riders’ horses came up lame. If what I saw tonight didn’t require a horse switch, I can’t imagine what would. Maybe a severed limb.

[Tha_Ridge]

@Railbird

It does beg the question of the legends I heard when I was a junior that the big barns would bring spare horses to the finals in case one of the riders’ horses came up lame. If what I saw tonight didn’t require a horse switch, I can’t imagine what would. Maybe a severed limb.

Oh, not a legend, it’s absolutely true, but yes, I guess you’re right. Sigh.

[Renn_aissance]

I read that as well. I was thinking thrown shoe or abscess or grabbed a heel getting up or something. All things horses do that can make it lame in the morning when it wasn’t lame last night.

[Peggy]

Definitely not 100% sure of this but IIRC the current rule is an upgrade of ye olden days when the then-AHSA rulebook was distributed on stone tablets and there was no mention of soundness in the eq division.

[Railbird]

Maybe I’m a pearl clutching railbird but this angle of the flat class bothered me

FullSizeRender

[AAHunterGal]

Sounds to me like it would be a no brainer as a proposal to amend for next year.

But then again, there’s a proposed rule change based around making more money (raising the height of the small Jr. divisions which looks like it will pass) and the rule about not pulling shoes can’t manage to ever get passed…

So maybe horse welfare isn’t #1 on the priority list.

[Renn_aissance]

Nope. I’m on my cellphone and I see 2 lame immediately upon striking a trot and another 2 I would want to watch another 10 steps.

[Willesdon]

This is an interesting discussion because here in the UK there is growing concern about the ‘social license’ for equestrian sport. There is a vocal and apparently growing element of society who believe all riding is cruel and that equestrian sport should be banned. There is a less vociferous and wider public that is concerned about horse welfare such as deaths in racing (horse racing is the second most televised sport in the UK) and what happens to retired racehorses. Many people vaguely feel that horses might be suffering as a result of their relationship with humans but are willing to learn more.

The various authorities and governing bodies in equestrian sport, education and welfare are striving to make certain that any abuse is always, invariably prosecuted, that the various equestrian sports are seen to be working hard to improve horse welfare, that the public can see what happens behind the scenes in daily horse care, that riders are aware of their own behaviour under the public gaze and that the equestrian world needs to build better connections with an urban population who view all animals through Disney’s eyes. Many, however, still foresee a time when equestrian sport will stop. The state of South Australia has banned jump racing from 2022 because of the deaths and injuries to horses.

A showing organisation that permits lame horses in competition is just perverse.

[endlessclimb]

General question - what is the average age of the top Eq horses? It takes ages to get a horse that broke, IME, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the age is pretty high.

Note that I am NOT in ANY way saying that it’s ok to compete them this way. I’m just wondering for the sake of wondering, why in the top top level there were two immediately lame-looking horses in a top level class.

[Willesdon]

Money?

[Renn_aissance]

@Willesdon That was on my mind last night, too.

I can certainly understand not wanting to throw out a horse for lameness on the basis of 5 steps of “is he, isn’t he” trot in the opening circle. Sometimes you need more than that to decide, and then it looks OK at the canter. In a finals situation, if the horse looked sound in the first round, you really don’t want to make a mistake here if he took a funny step coming in the ring and just needed a second to work out of it, and then it becomes a logistical problem to not make that mistake (and to avoid someone accusing you of sabotage/favoring Susie Second Place when you say you can’t use Jenny Junior who got called back on top because on your judgment the horse is unsound.) So then how do you determine he is lame? Mandate 20 steps of trot somewhere on course (ANRC does this)? Do both judges have to agree? Does the steward have to be involved? Do you have to jog the horse for the show vet? Do you ring the horse out for this to happen before he jumps, and then if he is sound is it horsemanlike to ask him to warm back up and go again?

All solvable problems. Of course, we could avoid the whole damn thing by not taking a horse in the show ring when he’s lame. Horse becomes lame between rounds? Maybe with the approval of the steward and show vet we allow the rider to compete a different horse in the second round provided that animal has not exhibited in the class with another rider.

I’m spitballing off of half a cup of coffee and 4 hours of sleep, trying to think what would motivate an educated person to compete a lame horse in the equitation anyway and finding ways to solve for that.

[Tha_Ridge]

The two that are the lamest looking, in my eyes, are both 14. I have a 14-year-old who has jumped a lot of big jumps in his life and let me say he doesn’t go like any of those. I think it’s a sad wake-up call to the pounding that really good equitation horses are under by this time in the season.

[endlessclimb]

Yeah, that’s not old enough to be lame like that, unless they’re used and used and used and used - which to be that consistent and that level of training, I’m sure there’s endless drilling when they aren’t being shown.

Story - A former eq horse was donated to Purdue’s equestrian team, his name was Griffin if I recall correctly - I was told he had brought someone to the Maclay, yadda yadda. At any rate, he was MISERABLE. Lame, stiff, sore, pinned his ears the entire ride. They still used him every team practice because he was so consistent and did all-the-things. That horse, solely, was the reason I never joined the equestrian team. I couldn’t stand to watch him, he looked so sad… all I could think was “hasn’t he done enough?”

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I think the intention of the rule might be that unlike with say, hunter classes (or dressage), even if a horse has a slightly odd gait or takes a hitchy step, the rider shouldn’t be penalized for that. For example, if a horse is being ridden in a derby or in a dressage test, even if they are 100% vetted sound, if they look off (maybe even due to rider error or imbalance), that will count against their score. But in an equitation class, if the rider seems to be piloting correctly, a less-than-brilliant mover shouldn’t count against the rider. In fact, many equitation horses have kind of flat, unremarkable gaits that are easy to ride, to better show off the rider.

Of course, all of this is in “theory” since, ironically, even though it’s the rider who is supposed to be judged, many of these horses are “finals specialists.” But I would hope that the original intention of the rule wasn’t “as long as the old campaigner can hobble around, send him in.” Even if that’s what people might be doing.

[DawgLady]

I don’t think it’s the age as much as the mileage. The top horses get passed from rider to rider to rider. There was one horse that both of the commentators had also shown. I can’t even imagine how many jumps they have to jump. How many shows. How little turnout. It’s a wonder any of them are sound in their teens IMO.

@AAHunterGal, what’s the proposed change to the small juniors? You said “raising the height of the small junior division.” Did you mean raising the height of the fences or increasing the horses’ measurement cutoff?