Who shows your horse at the show?

[BellaFortuna]

Looking at attending a few shows this winter and spring. My horse is young so that plan would be to put in pro ride(s) before I take over the reins. I do notice a difference in the quality of the rides/consistency at shows between the main trainer and assistant. Since my horse is young and hasn’t shown much and showing for me is a very expensive endeavor, I would prefer the trainer do the rides and not the assistant. My hunch is if I don’t say anything, the assistant will get the ride.

Has anyone had this conversation before? If so, how did it go? What did you do if the trainer said the assistant would be showing the horse? Is this a fair request?

[Bluey]

@BellaFortuna

Looking at attending a few shows this winter and spring. My horse is young so that plan would be to put in pro ride(s) before I take over the reins. I do notice a difference in the quality of the rides/consistency at shows between the main trainer and assistant. Since my horse is young and hasn’t shown much and showing for me is a very expensive endeavor, I would prefer the trainer do the rides and not the assistant. My hunch is if I don’t say anything, the assistant will get the ride.

Has anyone had this conversation before? If so, how did it go? What did you do if the trainer said the assistant would be showing the horse? Is this a fair request?

In many stables, putting in the first few rides is what assistants are for and what they live for, those chances to show.
You have to trust that the assistant has been properly taught and is proficient in that task and that your horse also is ready and they are a good match.

One of my young reining horses, when I had surgery, the trainer that took over choose an advanced assistant that was a high school kid that used the horse to learn and was high point in 4H for the region with that horse.
They did a wonderful job, horse was trained extremely well.

If you trust the trainer, ask many questions but trust their judgment.
If you absolutely want the trainer to be the rider, say so, see what the trainer tells you?

[Pennywell_Bay]

So I have the opposite experience as Bluey, so just a different perspective. And a different situation.

The most important thing to have is a conversation before everything gets rolling

In my case, I purchased a very high dollar jumper for GPs but was explicit that it was trainer rides only. As the horse has gained experience and knows her job, I did flex on FLAT rides but that was more because 1. Horse at one point needed rehab rides. I saw no point after the first few of the trainer walking the horse around- his talents are better used elsewhere IMO. 2. She now knows her job so when we needed fitness flat rides, I am ok with someone else under supervision . This horse is geared to high performance. She’ll eventually come to me and when we approach that, I am flexible with other people riding the horse. Different situation because the horse was purchased as a high performance horse for a pro.

I have held the line, only trainer shows the horse and only trainer jumps the horse. The assistant has jumped the horse twice, both at home and both when the horse had completed the rehab and trainer wanted to SEE how the horse jumped (I am in a different state) and I was asked first. I set expectations going in. I am a pretty flexible owner with the horse besides this one point (I have a different horse I show myself ) in terms of what shows we do etc so it has worked.

Good luck.

[Foxglove]

While I never had a trainer or assistant show a horse for me, I have worked with trainers who had assistants. Because at the time, the horse in training was being specifically trained for my grand daughter to use in 4-H, I thought the best use of my $ was to have the assistant (small college student) ride the horse under her dad (the trainer) supervision. The trainer was a big man. My thinking was that the assistant would ride more like my 10 year old (tall but weedy) grand daughter.

The assistant eventually went on to win just about every college award there was in Western Riding and did World and Congress many times riding her own horses and her dad’s client horses.

Granddaughter did her 10 years in 4-H and never rode again (I was sad, but understood horses were my passion, not hers. The horse stayed with me until he died this year at 26 of fast growing bone cancer in his jaw).

During the time GD was in 4-H, she and her small unremarkable, unmarked, BSP were never out of the ribbons --usually in the top 5 and occasionally beat the “big dollar horses” in pattern classes. GD worked well with the trainer (she adored him) and the month the horse spent with the trainer and his assistant each winter added more polish every year.

Anyway, that was my thought --put up the rider that rides most like my GD.

And after 10 years, I am currently BACK with the same trainer --his daughter as long moved on, but his new assistant (of 7 years) is a tall slender young woman (I’m a tall skinny old woman). Guess which is riding my horse when he’s doing his month at the trainers in April when I am out of the US? Yep, the assistant --because she rides like me! Currently we take monthly lessons-- I haul in --and then Bob and I practice what she assigns until the next lesson. Occasionally the head trainer comes and watches and makes suggestions to her or explains something to me (his latest one is that I need to be more patient and WAIT for Bob to give me the correct response) --anyway --that’s my thoughts on who rides my horse!

[trubandloki]

@BellaFortuna

Looking at attending a few shows this winter and spring. My horse is young so that plan would be to put in pro ride(s) before I take over the reins. I do notice a difference in the quality of the rides/consistency at shows between the main trainer and assistant. Since my horse is young and hasn’t shown much and showing for me is a very expensive endeavor, I would prefer the trainer do the rides and not the assistant. My hunch is if I don’t say anything, the assistant will get the ride.

Has anyone had this conversation before? If so, how did it go? What did you do if the trainer said the assistant would be showing the horse? Is this a fair request?

I think you simply need to have a discussion.
There is no set in stone answer to it being the primary or assistant trainer in the tack at first shows. It all depends on the horse and the barn.

It should be an easy conversation to start - Hey Trainer, I am really like how Dobbin goes for you, will you be the one riding Dobbin at his first show next month?

[endlessclimb]

I’m going to ask a smartypants question.

Can you ride as well or better than the assistant? If not, then outside of your horse really having a screw loose that the assistant can’t handle, there is no harm in having a less accurate rider than the pro do the first few shows. It will more accurately mimic your riding, in fact.

I am not saying this to be mean - in fact, I think too many horses are ridden by excellent pros, and then give the big old WTF when their less-skilled amateur owners get on.

[Bluey]

@endlessclimb

I’m going to ask a smartypants question.

Can you ride as well or better than the assistant? If not, then outside of your horse really having a screw loose that the assistant can’t handle, there is no harm in having a less accurate rider than the pro do the first few shows. It will more accurately mimic your riding, in fact.

I am not saying this to be mean - in fact, I think too many horses are ridden by excellent pros, and then give the big old WTF when their less-skilled amateur owners get on.

That happen with a 16 year wonderful sweet mounted police horse our riding center. bought.
At first, as a school horse, he just would not listen to beginners, so were using him for the more advanced students, is who I learned to show in jumpers with.
If you were not just right to a jump and put leg on in the approach, he may just duck to the side.
It took a good year before he “dulled” enough to accept the less proficient riders and teach them “nicely” to be more accurate.

[NancyM]

I’ve always done things differently, I guess. NO ONE touches my horses but ME. Ever. For riding, for training, for competition, for care around the barn at home or at a show. Trust no one. If you never do it, you will never learn how. And keeping “the client” dependent, needy and ignorant is a money maker for those “in the business”. And this is what is killing the equine industry. Where are the next generation of horsemen going to come from if everyone is dependent on “a pro” to look after their every need? And when “a pro” is just someone who hangs a shingle out on the side of the road… it’s no wonder that horsemanship and the equine industry is going down the tubes so badly.
Back to your regular programming.

[Bluey]

@NancyM

I’ve always done things differently, I guess. NO ONE touches my horses but ME. Ever. For riding, for training, for competition, for care around the barn at home or at a show. Trust no one. If you never do it, you will never learn how. And keeping “the client” dependent, needy and ignorant is a money maker for those “in the business”. And this is what is killing the equine industry. Where are the next generation of horsemen going to come from if everyone is dependent on “a pro” to look after their every need? And when “a pro” is just someone who hangs a shingle out on the side of the road… it’s no wonder that horsemanship and the equine industry is going down the tubes so badly.
Back to your regular programming.

Hmm, we learned that we had to teach horses to work and respond to anyone, not be a one person only and quirky horse, that didn’t know but one way to respond.
The theory was, one person may not always be the only one tending to/riding horse.
If horse has to stay at the vet hospital, if handler has to be gone, others will have to take care of horse and maybe exercise it.

Part of starting and training horses was to be sure different riders once the horse’s basic were on board were now to ride it some, as part of our program.
Then, our horses were not going to be “personal” horses, or not their whole life, so that is a different situation.

We followed this ancient advice into the riding part also:

[endlessclimb]

I was going to say - my best horses have been the ones I’ve thrown just about anyone on. As long as the rider is fair, it is valuable for the horse to learn to “read between the lines” and figure out a new rider.

[Night_Flight]

Also, depending on what sort of green behaviour is expected from the horse, the assistant is inherently more expendable, for lack of a better word, if the horse is likely to behave in such a way that their rider might come off. Better for the assistant to be sore than for the barn’s main trainer to be nursing an injury while showing horses in the bigger/more prestigious classes for the rest of the week.

Not saying that anyone deserves to be injured. Rather, it is typical of “working your way up” that you may be put on the riskier horses so that the trainer, who has already worked their way up, can safely focus on the rest of the horses.

[Madison]

@BellaFortuna

I do notice a difference in the quality of the rides/consistency at shows between the main trainer and assistant. Since my horse is young and hasn’t shown much and showing for me is a very expensive endeavor, I would prefer the trainer do the rides and not the assistant.

Given that you can notice a difference, I think it is fair to approach the trainer and express a preference, at least until the horse gets a little more experience.

[trubandloki]

@NancyM

I’ve always done things differently, I guess. NO ONE touches my horses but ME. Ever. For riding, for training, for competition, for care around the barn at home or at a show. Trust no one. If you never do it, you will never learn how. And keeping “the client” dependent, needy and ignorant is a money maker for those “in the business”. And this is what is killing the equine industry. Where are the next generation of horsemen going to come from if everyone is dependent on “a pro” to look after their every need? And when “a pro” is just someone who hangs a shingle out on the side of the road… it’s no wonder that horsemanship and the equine industry is going down the tubes so badly.
Back to your regular programming.

Ignoring the care part, where most people board so the care is done by the barn.

There is nothing wrong with accepting your skill limitations and having a trainer put miles on a horse, making life better for the horse and the owner.
It is not an evil thing to be a rider that knows your skill and pays someone to get your horse to that skill level.
Riders who enjoy riding but admit they are not green horse skilled are not the cause of the equine industry going down the tubes.

[luvmyhackney]

I specify who I want to show my horse in shows. I don’t let the trainer dictate cause it’s my $$ and my horse.

My horse did not do well and regressed terribly having more than two riders. Wasn’t the riders, they were great and very kind. He just needed consistency.

Each horse is different and has their own path.

My other horse could have a different rider daily and was the same with zero cares.

[foursocks]

My junior hunters were all green when we bought them, and the first two were shown in the green classes by one of the two head trainers. My last junior hunter was ridden at first by one of the trainers, and then later on by the assistant in the green classes. She was a good rider but as the season went on I 100% noticed a difference when I came to do my classes later in the week, so my mother asked to have one of the main trainers do the rides, and that is what happened. He was somewhat tricky because he had all of the normal green stuff and he also liked to buck when jumping. It was just youthful playing, but made things hard in the hunter and eq. rings! It was noticeably easier for me to ride him after he’d been schooled earlier in the week with one of the head pros.

If you think the horse goes better for the head trainer, it is your money and your horse, and you should be able to ask for that to happen. My green horses got enough mid-level riding from me, and they all benefited from pro rides! Throughout my adult riding life I’ve only had a trainer show my horses a handful of times, and when I do I always appreciate it. In those situations, I definitely want the person for whom my horse goes best in the saddle.

[fivestrideline]

@foursocks

If you think the horse goes better for the head trainer, it is your money and your horse, and you should be able to ask for that to happen. My green horses got enough mid-level riding from me, and they all benefited from pro rides! Throughout my adult riding life I’ve only had a trainer show my horses a handful of times, and when I do I always appreciate it. In those situations, I definitely want the person for whom my horse goes best in the saddle.

This!!

[findeight]

Barns I was in priced assistant rides differently than head trainer rides…but who rides depends on what other clients may be showing at the same time in different rings at bigger shows. So it depends sometimes. And sometimes head trainers are not able or have aged out of schooling rides and assistants do the riding.

I see no shame in using a Pro ride first time around the course. For what it costs to show anymore, it’s a good idea. Particularly for older Ammys who are lucky to get 3 rides a week in…that’s why we have Pros and create these jobs.

Its not because we don’t know how but because we do and have learned when its best for us and horse to trust the Pro.

[Pennywell_Bay]

@NancyM

I’ve always done things differently, I guess. NO ONE touches my horses but ME. Ever. For riding, for training, for competition, for care around the barn at home or at a show. Trust no one

This made me eyeroll so hard there may have been sonic boom. My personal horse - I can generally put anyone on an he will cart them around to some degree. My proudest moment was at a schooling day at a jumper barn, a low level kid was on the struggle bus with her horse. I put her on my guy, she jumped him around, including over a liverpool (a jump she had never jumped before). I was SO PROUD of both of them. He’s not a lesson horse, he was bred for the big jumpers. He had almost exclusive pro rides before I bought him He can be a dick, at times. I ride him primarily, I can’t remember the last time he got a training ride. But almost any semi decent riding, non offensive rider can jump him around a course. And he is a high dollar, high level horse. When the kid jumped him over the liverpool, I got misty. My trainer was like- you did that!!

Nothing gives me greater joy than to watch my (sometimes an ahole) horse pack someone around. I have been lucky to be given that chance and am more than happy to share my fortune with others (to some degree, he is still my puddin).

[phoenixrises]

My thought is horse new to showing, it’s about giving them positive rides, not trying to win. And the assistant is there to do just that. I don’t have a pro type horse, my horse isn’t going to win in good company, that’s fine that’s not what I’m looking for, I’m looking for my horse to have a positive show experience and learn their job. The assistant should 100% be able to do that.

however if it bothers you and you really want the pro to do it, you should say so! It’s a business and you’re the customer let them know what you’re thinking.

[NancyM]

My point is… you become skilled by doing it. You are riding your horse at home. Things are going well, you and your horse are jumping courses nicely. You and your horse are comfortable doing this. You may have had your coach or pro rider ride the horse a few times, if there have been reason to ride through some green moments that you are not comfortable dealing with. But now, you are past that, things are going well, and YOU and the HORSE are ready to try competing. So go do it. The jumps are tiny, perhaps smaller than what you are jumping at home. This is how you LEARN and gain confidence, in both yourself and your horse.
If you want to pay someone to ride your horse at a schooling show so that the horse goes “better” than you can do, what have you been learning in your schooling sessions at home ? Is this not what the schooling sessions for both you and your horse been FOR?