Who would you chose? I’m looking for a super dressage stallion who is proven. That throws huge moving uphill foals with lots of swing through the body and shoulder with proven frozen semen. No fresh semen. Any breed.
Johnson
Quaterback
Don Schufro
Charmuer
Furstenball
Others?
Is this your list, or would you consider other stallions as well??
I am open to other stallions
Totally depends on the mare but I’m totally enamored with Briar 899 and wish I had a reason to use a stallion like him.
Well after seeing the London Olympics… Don Shufro! Unless there was a reason to not use him (mare’s pedigree or size restrictions, etc), he would be my pick. I love his offspring’s way of going.
But depending on the mare’s pedigree, there might be a better stallion. Perhaps her pedigree crosses particularly well with Sandro Hit or Jazz, or someone else entirely.
Maybe this list can help you:
WBFSH Top 10 Dressage Sire Ranking 2012 (2013 not released for a couple more months)
1 DE NIRO - 24.843
2 JAZZ - 21.186
3 GRIBALDI - 20.198
4 FLORESTAN I - 15.312
5 DONNERHALL - 15.170
6 FERRO - 13.674
7 DON SCHUFRO - 12.807
8 MICHELLINO - 8.663
9 WELT HIT II - 8.313
10 SANDRO HIT - 7.546
Have had offspring from all the above listed stallions except Charmeur. All very different foals from very different dams. There is no way I could recommend one stallion over the other without more detailed info on the mare…
[QUOTE=Twisted River;7152673]
WBFSH Top 10 Dressage Sire Ranking 2012 (2013 not released for a couple more months)
1 DE NIRO - 24.843
2 JAZZ - 21.186
3 GRIBALDI - 20.198
4 FLORESTAN I - 15.312
5 DONNERHALL - 15.170
6 FERRO - 13.674
7 DON SCHUFRO - 12.807
8 MICHELLINO - 8.663
9 WELT HIT II - 8.313
10 SANDRO HIT - 7.546[/QUOTE]
Wow, somebody finally knocked Jazz o/o first place!! And look at old SH…the horse everyone said would never produce upper level horses! Who did DeNiro produce that shot him to the top?
BTW, most of these stallions (certainly Don S. & Jazz) are known to produce brilliant but sparky horses…so the OP should consider this. Again, without knowing ahything about the mare or the future “career” of the foal, it’s impossible to choose.
BTW – I think it’s interesting that 40% of the stallions on that list are deceased…
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7153863]
Who did DeNiro produce that shot him to the top?[/QUOTE]
De Niro has a bunch of offspring on the 2012 WBFSH dressage ranking list. Two of those were in the top 20 - Desperados and Dablino. Desperados was actually the #5 dressage horse in the world in 2013, and Dablino was #18.
And De Niro will end up at or near the top again this year, with Desperados currently still ranked in the #5 slot, Dablino moving up to #11, and D’Agostino moving up to #21.
He may be bested in 2013 by his own sire (Donnerhall), who currently has Damon Hill sitting in the #2 slot and Donnperignon in the #9 slot.
Jazz may slip to #3 or #4. I think at the moment, Gribaldi has more offspring near the top of the rankings.
But all the points aren’t in yet, plus the rankings are based on total offspring on the ranking lists, not just the horses at the top of the rankings. We will see how things look in another month or so.
Don Schufro - brilliant but sparky? The trainers that I have spoken to love them for their work ethic and ability to collect. Are you sure you are pinning the term “sparky” on the right fellow?
To the OP, be sure that you do your homework and find out if the recently frozen semen is producing pregnancies. It won’t matter how wonderful the sire might be, if the mare does not get pregnant.
And I agree totally with Crosiadore, no one can make very meaningful recommendations for your mare, without knowing more about her. :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=Home Again Farm;7154529]
Don Schufro - brilliant but sparky? The trainers that I have spoken to love them for their work ethic and ability to collect. Are you sure you are pinning the term “sparky” on the right fellow?
:winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
I was thinking of him afew years ago for my Weltmeyer mare and was told by several people that he can’t be reliable when it comes to producing ammie horses. That his foals tended to be awesome movers and real athletes, but very often more of a pro ride.
Also, I got mixed reports on his semen. Some said it was fantastic; others tried multiple times with no pregnancies…
OP - I started thinking about your criteria again, and am wondering what your goals are? Are you breeding for a fancy big moving foal that will wow inspectors and buyers? Or for the young horse classes? Or for a horse with true FEI potential?
Reason I am asking is because all the horses on your list except Don Schufro are too young to have a proven record of producing FEI horses.
Johnson - born in 2002, first foals in 2006
Quaterback - born in 2003, first foals in 2007
Don Schufro - born in 1993, first foals in 1997
Charmeur - born in 2007, first foals in 2011
Furstenball - born in 2006, first foals in 2010
As for the “Don Schufro = sparky” comments - I have occasionally heard similar references, but I in general, they tend to be considered professional horses because they are often somewhat gangly, big, raw boned young horses, with a fair amount of movement. A German breeder friend described them as “pieces and parts” horses who have a bit of trouble managing their big gaits until they hit age 8-9-10, when they finally start to get it together. I can see how a rider determined to push theses horses quickly through the levels might consider them “sparky”. (And Don Schufro frozen isn’t for the faint of heart, or the light of wallet - it HAS been known to work, but it also quite often doesn’t work.)
I’ve been a breeder for years. I’m asking a question about stallions only. I know how important the mare is! Im asking a general question as a whole…out of all kinds of different mares what stallion, even if I don’t have him listed…as I just listed the stallions on my mind, has constantly been producing uphill, elastic dressage horses. YH and/or proven GP. I know some stallions are very young.
[QUOTE=Bellefarms;7155895]
I’ve been a breeder for years. I’m asking a question about stallions only. I know how important the mare is! Im asking a general question as a whole…out of all kinds of different mares what stallion, even if I don’t have him listed…as I just listed the stallions on my mind, has constantly been producing uphill, elastic dressage horses. YH and/or proven GP. I know some stallions are very young.[/QUOTE]
I’m personally pretty happy with our Dressage Royal offspring and am enjoying bringing them along through the levels. But I am fascinated by the offspring by Vivaldi out of D(onnerhall) line mares with their free shoulders and elasticity. fwiw
Well I used Lancet this year. Doesnt fit the criteria, because no frozen available, as far as I know, but with very limited breeding (he will never make it to any ranking) he produced at least one olympic competitor… Uzzo, who meets the criteria…
[QUOTE=Bellefarms;7155895]
I’ve been a breeder for years. I’m asking a question about stallions only. I know how important the mare is! Im asking a general question as a whole…out of all kinds of different mares what stallion, even if I don’t have him listed…as I just listed the stallions on my mind, has constantly been producing uphill, elastic dressage horses. YH and/or proven GP. I know some stallions are very young.[/QUOTE]
If you are a breeder for years I’m sure you know that the mare is just as important and some stallions do best with a certain type of mare. None of these stallion will ALWAYS produce “uphill, elastic dressage horses”. Depends on the mare. Besides, I think “elastic & uphill” are pretty much basics for most approved dressage stallions these days. It’s very general.
Again, unless you are more precise in your goals/plans/mare info it really is just closing your eyes & picking.
Selecting the most popular young stallions of recent years (which is mostly your list), does not guarantee anything.
Curious as to why you insist on frozen?
Re: DS: interesting about the comment about how they can be tough to hold together when young. I had not heard that. Again, to be honest, what put me off the most is the quality of his semen…as you noted, it’s not for the faint of heart. It seems so “iffy” (especially at that price), I decided to go elsewhere.
[QUOTE=Home Again Farm;7154529]
Don Schufro - brilliant but sparky? The trainers that I have spoken to love them for their work ethic and ability to collect. Are you sure you are pinning the term “sparky” on the right fellow?[/QUOTE]
I had a Don Schufro mare that had a temperament that was the best in any horse that I have owned. She adopted an orphan filly without a foal by her side and was just the kindest horse. She is my only experience with Don Schufro’s offspring and I would love to fill a barn with them!
My own experience has been the same. For that reason, I jumped through quite a few hoops to get one of my girls in Germany bred to DS last year. When I bred to him the first time, I had several high level trainers tell me how much they had enjoyed the DS horses that they had worked with for their excellent character and willingness, along with talent for the upper levels. I guess, it all depends on who you talk to. :winkgrin::lol:
That said, the frozen semen is challenging - at least in my experience. These days, even his fresh is not easy. But, I would jump at getting another DS.
[QUOTE=bluemoonfarms;7158703]
I had a Don Schufro mare that had a temperament that was the best in any horse that I have owned. She adopted an orphan filly without a foal by her side and was just the kindest horse. She is my only experience with Don Schufro’s offspring and I would love to fill a barn with them![/QUOTE]
I have some Lancet frozen here. Uphill and Carlton Hill will produce you uphill bit movers. Farrington too…he is going to be frozen only now. Agree with Johnson.
Kathy
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