At Joshua Tree National Park in California they allow horses in certain areas but ban hay. Only pelleted feeds are allowed in the park. This prevents seed introduction through dropped hay and windblown seeds, but I wonder if the process of pelletizing the grasses chops up the seeds so that they can’t grow? Has anyone who feeds pellets noticed grasses/alfalfa growing from the manure?
People who don’t like horses (Flies! Odor! Fear! Jealousy!) will always find excuses to ban or restrict them, no matter how attenuated.
No matter what you do, it’s pretty much over in most populated areas. Kiss it good-bye, folks.
On my trails, there is almost always horse poop and dog poop! :no: When I trail ride, I at least kick the poop off the trail! Where I live we don’t have anything about no horses on trails, or banning stables (yet), besides trails that are too small and/or hilly for horses.
I have to post again because I feel strongly about this issue. I think it is so short-sighted to go head-to-head against those who want to ban horses. The right way to fight this is:
- Lobby for your sport. Show up in force at meetings on this issue. As quietann says in post #2,
There is a meeting… …If you can be there, please come. There are other public hearings – go to the website for more info.
If you cannot attend in person, send an e-mail detailing your objections. I have already sent a letter. Point out that we are TRAIL riders, not gravel road riders , that we don’t need an eight-foot wide trail…
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Organize a group or join an existing group to MAKE CONCESSIONS. (Rant: everyone is so contentious these days and there is no compromise!) We need to LISTEN to the objections to horses/trail riders and make some attempts to address the problems, not just scream that the problems don’t exist! Are horses mucking up sensitive trails? Offer to organize or join a work detail to repair trails. Are invasive plants becoming a problem? Have your horse group do an annual Poop Sleuth Drive to find and remove manure left on trails. Come up with ideas such as the Pellets Only rule.
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Be political. When you make concessions, publicise it!
-Write a letter to the editor, send emails to the Park Service Powers That Be, inform the governor of your state or the county representatives about the park cleanup, the trail repair, the fact that your group provided instructional signs for trail riders, etc.
-Don’t just go into a meeting or public hearing whining about what you want – it’s basic common sense that when you want something, you let the other side know what advantages they will get too.
-When you do a cleanup party, post it on the park centers bulletin boards and advertize it with the goal in mind of Public Relations. This information stuff is not just to communicate with your group or immediate volunteers; it is to bring good will upon your interest group and promote awareness that you are working to keep the park nice.
-Actually work with your adversaries. Make them your allies. Sometimes the greater goal is the same with both groups, but the details are different. Everyone wants beautiful parks. When a Park Service group is scheduling a work project, have all the trail riders show up en mass and hand out t-shirts or ball caps or pins which identify you as horse/trail rider supporters.
- Be responsible. Whatever the rules are in your park, FOLLOW THEM. Clean up after yourself. Go the extra mile. Decide ahead of time that you will not only clean up after yourself, but you will additionally pick up three manure piles which you find on the trail, a la Boy Scouts credo.
Good suggestions, Petey.
I have picked up poop that was not my horse’s in parking lots before, in plain sight of the culprit as they were leaving the parking lot. Just like I’ve picked up dog poop almost under the nose of the dog’s owner, who was pretending he had not seen his dog poop. (yes, how mature is that!)
I am always courteous and polite to people I meet on the trails, even to those who fail to leash their dog etc.
We have to remember that not everyone is horse savvy and what seems obvious to us, may not be to others. Explaining calmly is always better than yelling or chastising incorrect behavior.
The only time I actually got off to remove my mare’s manure was on the edge of a golf course whose owners had granted us passage. On the trails, I have to admit that I don’t do that, but then again, my current horse does not poop while on the trails, for some reason.
In my area there are a lot of parks that allow horses. All of them have signs requiring the parking lot be left clean. Most of the parking areas have a dumpster. I just go around and clean up the place when I am there.
We have the extreme privilege of having a beautiful park to ride in close to town. We don’t have the lobby that complains about horse poop on the trails
but we do have a sign in the parking lot and over time a lot of manure and shavings gets left behind the trailers.
Once, when I arrived, there was a gorgeous new trailer pulled by the matching new truck, full of fluffy white shavings. But a large amount of shavings and manure had been shovelled out onto the parking lot.
I picked up the shavings and manure and shovelled it back into the princess ride…and then rode off myself. By the time I got back, the shavings had been shovelled back out of the trailer and the people gone. I’ll bet their own place is spotless, but they leave our lovely free park a mess. I can’t tell you how mad I was, but I never saw that outfit again.
Seriously …poop bags n hocky sticks…while trotting and cantering to leg up a horse…people horses are Vegetarians, poop on trails bio degrades way faster than dog poop which is meat passed and full of binders which is why it turn to concrete.
I live near the Wallowa Mountains/Eagle Caps. It is a heavily used area by hikers and riders. There is a horse rental business that takes the riders on a short circular trail. You can not imagine the amount of poop. I’m a horse lover and I was grossed out. I think they should run a four wheeler and trailer around to clean the trail daily.
Someday that venue will be closed to horses because of the stink and crap (literally!) that people have to wade through just to hike the lake trails.
Well, I do pick up around my trailer and such. Grudgingly. The idea that one must leave an equestrian trailhead devoid of horsey smells so as not to offend non-horsey people who might want to use that trailhead does rather grate. Out on the trails- no, sorry, even in urban areas, I view that as over the top stupid. If I must remove my manure from the trail- well, are the hikers going to remove their trash, and are the bicyclists going to level out those trails when their wheels create that ‘v’ shape that is hard on a horse’s legs?
Mind you- I do agree with the points PeteyPie makes- but you know, there comes a point at which the rights of minorities come into play too. I think at less than 1% of the US population, horse owners are there. People who can’t cope on a trail with the occasional pile of poop have no clue what walking across any any city street in the 19th century must have entailed.
What she said! :lol:
I’m very lucky, glad to be, and by design… living in a part of the US that isn’t all wound up about crap on the trail.
For the most part, we all share. The bikes scare our horses, our horses crap on the bike trails, the hikers duck and cover as needed, and we all help and support and say “hey how’s it going” as we meet up. All my years of riding the Greater Yellowstone and Bob Marshall I can’t remember a single other person that was crabby about horses… and even when we don’t love the mountain bikes squeaky brakes on the freaking switchbacks (omg!) we still will drink a beer with the bikers at the trailhead and review the awesomeness that we all just saw… … we’re all kindred spirits out there and do our best to not rain on someone else’s parade.
Never had a single issue with anyone ever on horse crap, trail boundaries, shooting at anyone, legalities, nuttin… been riding in the wilderness for 20 years.
In the UK it is illegal to leave dog poo in public areas (though everyone does, or what’s worse they bag it up and just leave the bag by the side of the path/hang it in a tree 
) but no-one cleans up after their horses.
Round here the hacking is mainly all on roads, so the poos get broken up by wheels pretty soon anyway. Tbh horse poo is harmless, it’s just grass…
[QUOTE=katarine;7170011]
http://www.bunbag.com/257296.html
just a thought, might help you guys save your trail access[/QUOTE]
I went to the site and this is a quote:
“Caution: To avert a rodeo, accustom your horse to the bag properly!”
I almost peed myself
[QUOTE=Guilherme;7180015]
I looked at the website. These appear to be designed for driven horses. Can they be used while under saddle?
G.[/QUOTE]
Apparently, yes. The top of the page says
- For English or Military Saddles, snap straps to accessory rings behind saddle.
Beverly, cleaning up around your trailer at an equestrian trailhead is basic good manners. I’m surprised at your “grudgingly” comment. When a trail is multi use then yes you should do your best to keep the trail clear of your horses crap.
Where I normally ride now is very low usage, pretty much just horses here, but up at the main trail to the lakes it is heavily used by everybody. And just because others leave trash doesn’t mean that you should too. I like the posts referring to the boy scouts. Very nice land stewardship in their message.
Gestalt, my grudge does not relate so much to picking up after myself at my trailer, or to good manners and consideration of others at multi-use trailheads. I’m all for that and pick up not only my trash and manure but that which is left by others. It is for me part of a bigger issue. When a parking lot is built SPECIFICALLY for horse trailer parking only, and one arrives and finds maybe one spot left, because hikers and bikers don’t want to drive the extra 50 yards to their dedicated parking area, and then they complain that your horse pooped 30 seconds ago while you were in the middle of tacking up and you didn’t drop everything to clean it up- well, that’s one example.
Somewhat related- the few ‘equestrian only’ campgrounds on forest lands, with corrals for horses, which are reservation only, are allowed to be booked by non-equestrian users. So when you go to book it’s full- or you book, and arrive to find that your dedicated corral is full of 4 wheelers because the campers next door brought so many.
So then you get to the point where the Forest Service says gee, we have this equestrian facility and you equestrians never use it. (Well, yeah, because your system does not give priority to equestrian use at those facilities!). So then on their next plan revision they consider taking it out. And we have to fight to keep it. And on and on.
I will add that as a member of Back Country Horsemen, I routinely ride with a trash bag and lopping shears and maintain trails as I ride. The trash bag invariably comes back at least half full. And when we have collective projects we haul or pack out all manner of dreck- toilets, car parts, mattresses and such- from theoretically remote areas.
So yeah, I do have my grudges- especially where I hear the complaints knowing that we the horse folk built and maintain the particular trails, and non-equestrians who do NOT lift a finger to help with trails do the complaining about the manure!
[QUOTE=cowboymom;7200595]
What she said! :lol:
I’m very lucky, glad to be, and by design… living in a part of the US that isn’t all wound up about crap on the trail.
For the most part, we all share. The bikes scare our horses, our horses crap on the bike trails, the hikers duck and cover as needed, and we all help and support and say “hey how’s it going” as we meet up. All my years of riding the Greater Yellowstone and Bob Marshall I can’t remember a single other person that was crabby about horses… and even when we don’t love the mountain bikes squeaky brakes on the freaking switchbacks (omg!) we still will drink a beer with the bikers at the trailhead and review the awesomeness that we all just saw… … we’re all kindred spirits out there and do our best to not rain on someone else’s parade.
Never had a single issue with anyone ever on horse crap, trail boundaries, shooting at anyone, legalities, nuttin… been riding in the wilderness for 20 years.[/QUOTE]
Stay west of the Mississippi 
That’s the plan! I don’t think I would “blend” well…
I just saw this on the Technical Large Animal Emergency Rescue Facebook page. If the people who are afraid of manure would read this, maybe they would realize that horse manure is not bad. Having said that, I do agree that manure should not be shoveled out of trailers and dumped on the ground at parking areas. On the trail, though, I can see both sides …
=====================================
For horse people, manure is part of day-to-day life. For people who do not have experience with horses, manure can appear dirty and even toxic. When they see it on a trail or roadway, they may become fearful that the manure will transmit diseases in the same way that dog, cat or other animal leavings can. This article offers a few talking points to alleviate these misplaced fears.
•Horse manure is comprised of 70 to 80 percent liquid and 20 to 30 percent solids. The liquid portion absorbs quickly into the ground. The majority of the solid portion – mostly grass and forage leavings – breaks down in the first six days.
•Horse manure is biodegradable, natural and contains no petroleum or animal byproducts.
•Horse manure is an excellent fertilizer and can improve soil conditions.
•There are no known toxic effects on humans due to exposure to horse manure.
•The Environmental Protection Agency excluded horse manure from solid waste regulation because it contains neither significant amounts of hazardous materials nor exhibits hazardous characteristics.
•Horses do not carry any of the 120 viruses and pathogens that create risk for humans from carnivore and omnivore species.
•The pathogens that do exist in horse leavings require ingestion to create a health risk, typically abdominal discomfort.
•Most of these pathogens have very short lifespan on the ground, meaning the risk of infection through ingestion is very limited.
•No record exists of horses transmitting any disease to humans.
To read the research behind these talking points, please visit: http://www.bayequest.info/static/pdf/manure.pdf
You can work with your horse and teach it to poop off the trail. They are pretty smart and will figure it out after a few times. It may be easier with a horse that, like my mare, HAS to stop to poop. I feel her stopping and I lead her off the trail so she can poop in the woods or tall grass or whatever. I am not against horse poop at all, but sometimes a fresh pile can attract a swarm of flies and gnats and that can be unpleasant for someone walking along. If I cannot get her off the trail for reasons of terrain, I get off and kick it then walk along and find a place to get on (she is short but I ride treeless, so no ground mounting). I think it is more important to have access to trails than feel inconvenienced by dismounting to kick a pile or two of poop.
