It’s just like those folks that advertise any horse that runs off or can’t be controlled as an “endurance prospect.” Yeah, that’s what I want - a horse that runs like a maniac for miles on end and can only be stopped when he gets tired. 
I have to agree that just because the horse isn’t successful anywhere else doesn’t automatically make it a trail prospect.
FW, I think the reason ppl were jumping on your case originally was because the way your original post was worded, it seemed to imply that any horse can be a trail horse WITHOUT any training.
I think we’re really on the same page, it just wasn’t clear at first. I train my OTTB’s just as intensively for trail work as I do for anything else. I don’t consider my OTTB’s to be trail wise until they have learned not to spook… not to jump over the legendary white lines on the road… water, bridges, how to handle themselves on hills, in mud, thru gulleys, bad footing, and will hack out alone or in company without trying to “do the TB thing” and get their noses out in front! 
I do agree that any horse can be trained to be a good trail horse for weekend pleasure riding… but not every horse has what it takes to be an endurance horse. 
I agree with FairWeather’s post.
The phrase she should have used is “serviceably sound for the job intended.” This phrase would have cut out most of the uglyness in this thread.
My QH was serviceably sound. He had a career ending accident as a five year old when he damaged his stifle by falling on the road when spooked by a motorcyclist. The stupid motorcyclist spooked my QH on purpose. I only had my QH for three months at the time. Deep footing, jumping and tight circles were out of the question for him.
My QH became my best friend and trail buddy. I guess you can classify me as a “pleasure rider,” because we used to go out for hours to enjoy the country side. And, yes we did a lot of trotting and cantering, as well as walking.
Over the years I became disabled due to advanced cancer, and I ride with a crooked, unstable fractured pelvic bone. Walking can be a nightmare at times, due to the pain of the cancer, but my trusty, “serviceably sound” QH has taken me many comfortable miles over trails that I would not be able to traverse on my own two feet.
I finally retired my QH when the hills got to be too hard on him, and he started to loose his vision due to cataracts in both eyes.
I think the biggest confusion is the subject title of this forum “Endurance and Trail Riding”. For most people who do Endurance and ilk think that Trail Riding must mean Competitive Trail.
Those who do “pleasure riding” think that Trail Riding is what they do.
Then there are those in the world who think that going for a hack outside of the confines of a ring or arena consitutes trail riding.
So we have the people who do “competitive” trail riding, those that do “non-competitive” trail riding and some who realy don’t the difference all talking at cross purposes.
Words taken out of context often change meaning depending upon your point of reference.
Dressage and endurance can go hand in hand and in fact complement one another. And I ride endurance in my Passier Baum dressage saddle - with a big sheepskin cover on it of course!
I couldn’t agree more with the OP. A solid trail horse is just as highly trained for his discipline as is a FEI level dressage horse.
I remember many years ago at the barn where I was boarding, there was a wanna-be BNT dressage/event rider trainer. He kept carrying on how he had trained all these horses and had jumped all these cross-country fences. He then proceeded to make a snaide comment about my late paint gelding to the effect, “well, he’s just a trail horse, nothing fancy to that.” So, one day he wanted to go trail riding with me. I picked what I considered to be an intermediate level trail, single track, no bicycles allowed, with a few hills. Well, he made it all of about 10 minutes and his “fancy, highly trained” mount was just quaking in her shoes, dancing, jigging, and unable to keep her feet on the trail. The trainer was rather white in the face, got off, and led the horse home. Never heard another snotty word about my “POS trail horse.”
Darn, I miss my old gelding.
I am a dressage rider who also does competitive trail. Because I know alot of trail riders, I constantly get asked to help sell horses that wash out as hunter/jumper or dressage show horses. What I try to explain to these people is that a “trail” horse needs to have specific skills just as a hunter/jumper or a dressage horse. Not every horse can transition to this career. Skills that I think are necessary are the ability to stand tied,ability to handle varied terrain, bombproofness (not spooking at every leaf), a good loader in the trailer, must be able to cross water and bridges, not kick in close quarters and travel quietly in a group situation. Some of these ex-show horses cannot handle life outside the ring. Sorry to vent, it is just seems that some of the other riding disciplines don’t take trail riding seriously.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”> Originally posted by gothedistance: PS. I alway feel so sorry for people who try to ride their beautifully show-trained horses out, and just have an awful time with the spooks and misbehaving. I see it too much in my neck of the woods. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by FairWeather:
I dont. I feel sorry for the horse that is expected to behave impeccably to a situation its never been exposed to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Then we have me to feel sorry for the poor riders, and you to feel sorry for the poor horses. We could have a pity-party for everyone involved! 
Honestly, the one person that comes to mind in all this discussion is my wonderful neighbor who was given (free) a stunningly beautiful A-show hunter with “soundness” issues in his hocks that his prior owner didn’t want to deal with at all. My neighbor took beautiful care of this horse with all the best vet care, and he rewarded her by pinning in the Ammy Owner division at Upperville. I vidoetaped their rounds and call for the ribbon, and to this day she still covets those tapes. 
HOWEVER … this horse was only good for the ring. He hated going out pleasure riding and it was with bated breath everytime she asked to come along with me on a stroll down the road. For years she did her best to help him relax and feel comfortable, but he only achieved that level at a walk. Any other gait would project him into a tantrum. He was happiest in the ring, and that was that.
Prudance
the cool part with my gelding is we are still
working on diffrent things. I look at each
ride as a bonding adventure because we
don’t really know what we will come across.
one of the things I like about him is that
when he goes down a very steep incline
wether a ditch or hill he will put his head
down a bit I lean back and he feels with his
feet before he puts his foot on the ground and
is so carefull doing this. We have accomplished
alot TOGETHER and we are proud of one another
He is a one person horse he really gets nervouse
if I even allow someone to just sit on him
Thanks GTD
I definately dont consider myself a hard core trail rider, but I do carry a sponge in the summer
I definately have my ‘serious’ ride friends and my pleasure ride friends. Now that i’ve gotten a taste of the ‘go four hours, hop off and have lunch, then go 4 more’ I go out for my hour long jaunts and always feel disappointed.
"OK, there is also a niche of people that wish to do trail riding all day long…at a walk… pleasure riding. OK, maybe they do 30 miles…still pleasure riding. I am not knocking this. I wouldn’t do it. To long and too slow for me, talk about saddle sore. But these folks usually ride gaited horses and love it. Again, it is trail riding, but it is not “competition” so not really trail riding. Here is a very thin line between pleasure and trail.
I believe it is all on how hard you work your horse and yourself. If it is easy, obviously your pleasure riding, if it is hard, trail riding."
I’m not sure which side you are on with the statement above. Are you saying if it’s hard, it’s trail riding, or unless it’s a competition and there’s someone judging at the end, you’re not really trail riding? I do strictly trails and my horses are atheletes in every sense of the word. They have to be to climb some of the mountains I point them at. I ride in the Cascade mountains all summer long and there are some areas I’ve been that the general public will never have the opportunity to see. Have you ever ridden on the open side of a mountain on a trail that is about two feet wide looking down 1,000 feet over your toe? These horses are steadfast and true and will save your life. They have to walk for safety’s sake and in doing so you get the benefit of seeing all the country has to offer rather than speeding by on a gaited horse. Boring? Hardly.
Pleasure rider brings to mind someone who rides down the road with a friend talking with a beer in one hand and the reins in the other. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Also, trail horses are made not born. I had a appy filly whose mom was the best mountain horse I had ever ridden in my life. In fact that was her job description - Professional Mountain Horse. Unfortunately, her baby did not have the temperment to be a trail/mountain horse and I spent 6 years trying to make her one. Fortunately, I found her niche as an arena horse and she is now enjoying a successful show career.
Some can do a passable job at being a trail horse but I wouldn’t trust them to carry me safely out of the wilderness when needed. But then there are others who are worth their weight in gold that will do the job and do it willingly. Those are the true trail horses.
I wouldnt consider a horse being advertised as a “trail horse” as a badly trained one. Typically I think of a horse listed as a “trail” would have limited soundness to do anything else.
I often sell ‘trail’ horses who had some soundness issue that will prevent them from jumping.
I think we are on the same page here folks, we’re just reading from different ends of the book.
Let me clarify. I did not say “sell unsound horses” I said “horses with limited soundness” meaning, horses with that are perfectly suited to just about anything out there, but would not hold up to constant jumping. Not sure where this is confusing to people. Am I not saying this correctly?
A horse with a soundness issue does not equal a lame horse, because if that were the case, every horse in the world would be considered lame. There is no ‘one’ horse out there with perfect health. Again, I have 5 horses. Every one of them has at least one ‘issue’ but they are not lame.
And yes, we have a differenc in perception. Using your definition of a ‘trail horse’ (meaning one that is “competitive animal trained and conditioned to go distances over natural terrain, including mountains, either for the owner’s private pleasure or for competition”) than no, I do not believe any old horse can do this.
Splitting hairs at this point?
FYI, ‘fused hocks’ does not mean ‘bad hocks’.
I think top endurance horses are special and not every horse can reach that level, as in dressage or jumpers etc, it takes a combination of a variety of things to make a top endurance horse
but…
i think any horse that is trained should be able to trail ride, jump a course, do a maybe 1st or 2nd level test, maybe not brilliantly but under control
i don’t think that’s a lot to ask
i do agree that for some reason some people that present a horse as a trail horse mean it can’t do anything else, but to me that’s not a trail horse, it’s a poorly trained horse
most conditioned horse i know who have been ridden consistently can handle 10-20 miles of trail riding, but probably not be competitive in ctr or limited endurance ride
most horse’s can wtc, lengthen shorten stride and do half passes
most horse’s can get over a 3 ft fence
i think generally it’s the rider holding them back from any of this
I think the phrase pleasure horse says it all. If you are just tooling around for fun, couple of miles, or an hour…this is a pleasure horse.
Seems to be confusion on what training is involved with regard to the pleasure horse and the trail horse.
Pleasure horse knows how to please its owners, and no really hard training.
So making that distinction I will now discuss the trail horse. A trail horse in my opinion is a horse capable of going 25+ miles, and in 2 to 3 hours…not walking folks…this is a pleasure horse. Then there is the endurance horse that is 50 -100 miles…we would never say “gee, it was a pleasure to do that 50-100 miles” Ahahhahaaha No, we would say we knocked it out.
Our horses are Not lame! Pure and simple…or we don’t get to compete, and nothing is more maddening than to do the whole ride, and not get your completion. 
These horses can do 15 mph for an hour! Easy, I have done it! That is NOT pleasure…that is pure hard work, and ONLY a true athlete of a horse can do that! 
This is trail!
OK, there is also a niche of people that wish to do trail riding all day long…at a walk… pleasure riding. OK, maybe they do 30 miles…still pleasure riding. I am not knocking this. I wouldn’t do it. To long and too slow for me, talk about saddle sore. But these folks usually ride gaited horses and love it. Again, it is trail riding, but it is not “competition” so not really trail riding. Here is a very thin line between pleasure and trail.
I believe it is all on how hard you work your horse and yourself. If it is easy, obviously your pleasure riding, if it is hard, trail riding.
My good ole gelding was amazing; he would put his foot exactly where I said…when I said. And by god it was important sometimes. I have gone up mountain ranges that would make many of you puke! I have gone through water sources and mud that strictly required the correct step all the way through. My horses are trained, yes, they know, do it my way when I say. This is sometimes a life and death issue. No time for a rebellion.
Endurance is a race people! I have ran down mountians in the dark, depending on my horse! That ain’t a pleasure…its a heart attack. I must rely on my mount, and I do…because I trained her.
Yes, I take offense when someone says…well this horse is stupid or lame, or unable to jump, maybe it can do trail. Please…you people get my rejects…not the other way around! My horses have to be close to perfect, with NO problems! I can’t have a neurotic horse who is afraid of a loud voice or a sudden touch. Please.
Yes, I deal with other things…like keeping proper weight, proper fit, proper saddle, shoes…things of that nature. I don’t deal with negative attitudes from horses…they can move down the road.
So, I do pleasure riding with my friends, I do trail competition with my mom. These are two different worlds, and two separate types of horses. Yes, I use my endurance horse for pleasure, but she really doesn’t get into it. Too slow and boring for her. I usually take a greenbroke horse.
Bottom-line…they way you ride trail distinguishes you from either being a pleasure rider or a trail rider. If you walk it…pleasure. If you trot-canter….trail rider. Believe me, even your silly horse knows the difference!
Um, folks there is a huge difference between a “trail horse” and a competitive athlete that can cover 30 miles at a go.
Yes, there are some people who just like to go take a stroll through the woods, and unless you have a psycho animal, almost all of them can do it. I would think it is more about fitness and temperment, not training.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by War Admiral:
FW, I think the reason ppl were jumping on your case originally was because the way your original post was worded, it seemed to imply that any horse can be a trail horse WITHOUT any training.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I guess i believe that people shouldnt read between the lines and assume I mean something I didnt say. Silly me I guess. 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by FairWeather:
Typically I think of a horse listed as a “trail” would have limited soundness to do anything else.I often sell ‘trail’ horses who had some soundness issue that will prevent them from jumping. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>So, what am I missing here? Need you ask again where you said you posted you “sold” unsound horses? Here ya go.
If a horse has a physical unsoundness that rules it out for other sports – bad hocks, weak tendons, etc – that doesn’t make it any more suited for a sport that requires a MUCH longer time being under saddle than normally spent in the ring.
So what that brings us to is: a difference in our perception of what is a “trail horse”, and what is a “pleasure horse”. I see the former as a competitive animal trained and conditioned to go distances over natural terrain, including mountains, either for the owner’s private pleasure or for competition. The latter is a pasture ornament that can walk around the block (hopefully) and maybe do a bit of showing in the ring in whatever discipline the rider so desires. A dressage horse can also be a pleasure horse; an event horse can also be a trail horse, but a horse with a soundness issue … however limiting or limited … is just that – an unsound horse.
Edit to add – yeah, Fairweather, I can’t spell either. Wish this board has a spell check. 
I’m getting tired of having to float everything into MSWord only to have that insipid program tsk-tsk over all my errors.
PS. I alway feel so sorry for people who try to ride their beautifully show-trained horses out, and just have an awful time with the spooks and misbehaving. I see it too much in my neck of the woods.
I think it’s horrible that people think a horse of limited soundness is suitable for trail riding. Most horse trails I’ve ridden on are rough, poorly maintained, and difficult. Even if you’re out there just for a half an hour of walking, it is much more physically demanding on the horse than riding around in an arena.
One barn I was at, many of the folks who showed hunter/jumper refused to ride out on the trails even at a walk because they were afraid of injuring their horses on the rough footing.
Exactly. When I was a kid, trail riding meant going out and camping overnight (but not necessarily getting where we were going fast). Now it means (to me) get the horse out of the area before she goes nuts in there. It can be:
a ride through the woods on the hunt club property (got to trailer there)
a ride around the back 40 as someone put it – good way to check those fences
a ride around the dirt roads in our neighborhood
It’s not competitive, it’s pleasure. And it’s pleasure for me and the horse. I am interested in competitive trail riding and endurance. I’m happy to say the people I know who do it in real time aren’t as uptight and defensive as some of you are. Sheesh. As FW, with whom I agree completely, and who should not have walk on eggs with her phrasing, this is sounding a lot like the H/J forum. Chill, folks!
