Menu

Stay in Touch
Sign up for ENews
Subscribe Now

Unlimited access >

Menu

Why do you hunt?

Hunting
#1

Don’t want to start a brawl, but I’m curious as to why someone would prefer “live” hunting as opposed to drag.

I’m no PITA member, and I’ve hunted deer & elk (with a rifle, not hounds…obviously) and have no problem with hunting for food. But in terms of vermin control I always thought using 20 hounds & heaven knows how many people to demolish ONE fox was alittle overkill (sorry).

I still think that. There are many other options for controlling the fox population should one need to, so to me it seems drag hunting is a great solution.

So I’m just curious as to why, in this day & age, people would PREFER “live” hunting.

Tradition? That’s honestly the only reason I can think of, but then I’ve only ridden to the hounds once (which was a blast), so I’m certainly not a regular in that world.

Let me put it this way: if “live” hunting were banned in the US, how many of you would continue to hunt?

Again, PLEASE keep it civil…I’m just interested in opinions.

#2

see live foxhunting as an excellent way of keeping the fox population healthy. Hunting with hounds mimics the natural predator process that nature exerts on animal populations. Old or sick foxes get killed quickly, the young and healthy get away without a scratch. There is no such thing as a wounded fox getting away from hounds. Gun hunting kills indiscriminately. When you have a prey animal in your sights, you don’t know if the prey is young or old, sick or healthy. You take your shot, and if your aim is true. the animal dies quickly. If your aim is bad, the wounded animal crawls off and dies a long, drawn out, miserable death. When hounds catch a fox, they grab his neck, shake violently, snapping the fox’s neck, and it’s over quickly. Hounds do NOT “tear apart” live foxes. Like any predator, they don’t want to be injured fighting a fox. They pile on and kill it quickly.

It’s better for the fox population that old/sick/diseased foxes are culled. Without natural predators, like wolves, cougars, etc., foxes die a long drawn out death, due to old age, starvation or sickness. A miserable, unappreciated, lonely end. Since we don’t have roving teams of vetrinarians running around the woods, locating and putting down suffering foxes, hunting with hounds is a wonderfully selective way of ending fox suffering in the wild.

Hound hunting also stirs up the foxes, keeping them scattered, and teaches them to avoid humans, thus keeping them away from human populations, thus reducing problems with nuisence foxes hanging around people and their pets, livestock, etc.

The pace of live hunting is different as well. Drag hunting often resembles one long steeplechase. Cast the hounds, then run-run-run without a break until you reach the end of the course. Live hunting is a start-stop kind of affair, with breaks to catch your breath, while the hounds try to figure out where the fox is. Much preferable to steeplechasing.

#3

I prefer live hunting because I love watching hounds work and enjoy the HUNT; lots of people hunt just for the ride, I hunt for the hounds and the ride. Sure, drag hunting is fun, but you miss out on the sport of actually watching the huntsman work with the hounds to find a line and all the staff working together to produce a fantastic days hunting. This does not mean I’m in it for the kill. As someone on here so eloquently put it, you don’t kill the football at the end of the game so why would you kill the fox. Practically speaking, we do not have enough game to kill, but also, times are a-changin’ and we have to adapt to what our landowners will stand for. That said, if live hunting were banned, I would leave the room in a huff, be very disappointed, then probably continue to hunt because I sure like it more than anything else on horseback.

#4

I think that is well said, but the drag can be laid in a “foxy” way which replicates a live hunt quite well. It is not just a straight line, visual coordinates, and lots of jumps.

One advantage of a drag is that the field is not out all day looking and possibly not getting any run. You can be home in time for tea. I’ve hunted all my life, live and drag, and now that I’m getting older I get tired more easily and the cold seeps into my bones. I still need to see the hounds work and be inolved.

#5

I enjoy hunting, especially hunting with a dog or dogs.

I have no doubt a drag hunt is a wonderful way to enjoy the outdoors, horses, and the company of your fellow horsemen.

But many people ride to hunt, and I am one of them.

(I’d not go duck hunting without a firearm; otherwise it’s just bird watching. ;))

To each his own and I’m glad both are available and popular in the US.

#6

Well, first of all, I hunt because it’s a lot of fun. No better way to see the countryside than from the back of a horse, and nothing more natural for a human to do than go hunting, with or without hounds.

I hunt because I enjoy the hound work, the pack dynamics as well as the particular talents of individual hounds. I also very much enjoy watching the reaction of the hunted quarry (fox or coyote), which is a missing component in drag hunting. As animals that hunt by scent, they know very well what they have to do to lose the hounds. Out here in the west, coyotes are used to being shot by ranchers, and so when they first see foxhunters coming (from a couple of miles away, or more) they are likely to make a beeline in the opposite direction. In areas where they have learned the game, they run in loops much like foxes because they really aren’t ever pressed. Scent is so poor in the desert and sagebrush steppe that a coyote’s scent will generally only last for 3 to 5 minutes, so it is a tough go indeed for the hounds. I have seen a coyote hunker down behind a sagebrush and watch the pack go by. I also watched one saunter along behind the hilltoppers one day, checking things out- when the pack was brought to his line, they couldn’t run it more than about 200 yards because of poor scenting.

Back east, watching foxes driving hounds nuts on a poor scenting day is fascinating. Watching a fox that has a bit of a lead, simply stop and turn around and watch until the pack has found the line again, and then continue on his merry way, is also fascinating.

I also hunt because I care very much about the welfare of ALL wildlife. When land is no longer used for hunting and/or agriculture, the wildlife suffer because the habitat quality declines markedly. Conversely, in areas that are used for hunting, you will find a healthier and higher population of fox (and many other species). Those who believe that hunting is cruel, and assert that hunting stresses foxes to the point of death, can’t quite seem to grasp this basic truism.

Hunting with hounds IS a legitimate and efficient means of vermin control, where it’s needed. I am aware of hunters out here in the west who use combinations of sight and scent hounds and terriers to control coyote and fox for specific landowners (bird preserves, for example). They do their job well, including taking great pains to CONTROL, not eradicate, so as not to create a vacuum in the balance of nature. For most hunt clubs in the US, vermin control is not ‘generally’ an issue, and so if the fox or coyote goes to ground or loses the pack by, say, running through a herd of sheep or antelope so those animals will foil the scent, they are given best and the huntsman takes the pack to see if they can find another worthy critter and hunt it.

#7

I ride for watching the hounds and the the thrill of the chase. I also happy when the fox makes an escape. There have been two kills in my ten years of hunting.

I just don’t see drag hunting as the same sport. You might as well tie a fox tail to a horse’s ass.

#8

Let me preface this by saying I have only been out hunting a total of 5 times. All of which were live except for a very short drag in a clinic setting. That said, I have listened and discussed with the members of said live hunt the differences between drag and live. Most of the hunts in our area drag so this hunt does offer something unique.

All of the members of this hunt I spoke with prefer live and this is why:

1.) Tradition

2.)they ride to HUNT and watch the hounds work not to gallop and jump cross country; you don’t need to foxhunt to gallop/jump.

3.) the ability to get close to the hounds working, hear their voices. Most people have told me that the drag hunts up here you hardly see the hounds working at all and rarely get very close. The people that live hunt want to follow working hounds, watch them pick up scent etc…

4.) Every hunt is completely different, no one, even the master, has really any idea where the hounds will take the field nor how fast or slow. The 5 hunts I have done have all been extremely interesting and completely different because of this.

5.) It has been explained to me that live hunting these days is really more like “chasing”. All the elements of live hunting are in place but in actuality it is extremely rare that a fox or coyote is actually killed. If it does happen it is because the fox/coyote was sick/old.

Would I foxhunt if there were not live hunting? Probably. The short drag hunts I have been on I enjoyed but right now live hunting I think would be more interesting for me. There are several people in the field who have been hunting for many years and it is fascinating to listen to them speak about what exactly the hounds are doing, what the swing of their tails means and all of the other details associated with live hunting. This past sunday we hunted in new territory for the first time and because of this there were no jumps. I don’t think anyone was disapointed. The new territory was beautiful country and the hounds provided ample opportunities for viewing their work.

#9

Well said! :slight_smile:

#10

Kyzteke:

I applaud you for asking a civil question and gathering facts and information before making your own, informed opinion. I wish many more would do so.

#11

I :lol::lol::lol: at this. I doubt the errant letter was intentional, but the effect was priceless!

#12

Very interesting topic for a hunting newbie like me (I have officially 11 hunts under my pony’s and my belt) and I have wondered why people choose one over the other.
I have been out with two clubs, both are drag hunts. I have appreciated that the land I will ride my horse over has been thought out and that speeds/scents are judged and placed accordingly. We have had a lot of rain in New England this summer and fall and I can’t imagine if the hounds got on a scent in a deep or really mucky area riding my horse fast through such terrain.
How is this handled in a live hunt?
I realize I am not really “hunting”, but I do like the fact that possibly un-ideal conditions are controlled for.
I also have to say with both hunts I have been able to see the hounds work, even if it is on a placed-by-man scent. (One hunt has a professional huntsman the other is volunteer)
Just curious and I’m glad the OP brought up such a topic!

#13

I have been hunting for about 10 years now. At this point most of that 10 years has been with a drag hunt, for the last two years I have been whipping in at another hunt, which is live. This season I started whipping in full time also at the drag hunt as well. Over the years I have hunted as a guest at drag and live hunts.
I know that I would not enjoy hunting nearly as much if we were killing something every single time out, but I also know that that really does not happen. Healthy, vibrant foxes usually don’t meet an end unless they make a really bad mistake.
I would hunt either way, if it were one or the other. There are drawbacks and positives to each.
Re drag hunting: it can be very challenging to plan the drag and to lay it in such a way as to simulate the way that real game would run. I think each drag hunt should be evaluated on it’s own merits, a drag hunt is only as good as who is laying the drag. The hunt I am with does not just go in straight runs from check to check. Knowing where the drag is also makes hound work interesting in that you know (at least the staff does, and those in the field who are interested usually figure it out) who is on and who isn’t and who found etc as opposed to who is running deer or whatever else, or goofing off.
Live hunting: more challenging as a whip because you don’t know where they are going, but still very thrilling because it’s as it comes.
As I said, I would hunt either way, because i am all about the hounds. I love being around them, watching them work, and spending time with them. I could care less if we kill anything or not.

#14

I don’t think the terms are used consistently.

Drag hunt: some mean a hunt in which the drag is done from horse or 4-wheeler and never stops

Drag hunt: some mean a hunt using artificial scent; there can be lots of stops and attempts to make the pace match that of a real fox

Both would be fine with me. Really, I hunt to ride, but at my age I need pauses.

#15

My two cents

Interesting question and I also applaud you for the way you phrased it. I have hunted both live and drag. My first hunting experience was a drag hunt that I hunted with for a full season. The very first time I hunted and the hounds opened up, I thought to myself, I want to hunt for the rest of my life. The first time I hunted live, I thought to myself, I never want to drag hunt again :wink:

My favorite part of live hunting is you never know what’s going to happen next. In hindsight, drag hunting was just so… predictable. Run, run, run, keep your horse a length away from the one in front, stay in your single file line, jump the pretty jump in the trail, stop, yack for 20 minutes, pass the flask, run, run, run, single file, jump, stop, yack for 20 minutes, run, run, run, etc, etc.

I love the suspense of live hunting. I love it when a hound starts to call his buddies over “Hey, look what I found!” You think, whose voice is that? You perk your ears along with your horse. I know that voice, it’s Hound X and he is always true. Soon the others will pipe up! Or is that a new voice? You wait for the awesome Hound X, Y, or Z to honor and tell you yes! Things are about to get cracking! I love that everyone out live hunting keeps their voice to a whisper because at any minute something exciting could happen and we could be off on a run and no telling how long it will go! I love it when we get on a crazy fast coyote (the kind that comes once a season), and there’s no time to put the poles down on the fences, you just go! It’s the sense of urgency and not knowing if you’re headed for your favorite field, the river, or a flat out gallop down a road.

For the record, I’ve only been present for one kill. To me, it’s not about population control. It’s about seeing the hounds really work, the suspense, and from time to time, being the one to shout Tally-ho. That’s why I hunt live and I loooooove it!

#16

I think because the hunt I have been out with uses the same fixtures fairly often they have a good idea where any boggy/muddy terrain might be. Recently I did a hunt where we had to cross a boggy field. We could have galloped and ordinarily probably would have crossing said field but due to the conditions the Master led the field at a careful walk.

No one wants their horse to get hurt or injured and safety of my horse is at the top of my priority list. The day I feel hunting puts the safety of my horse at risk…is the day I stop hunting.
Live hunting tends to be MUCH slower than drag hunting. It isn’t going to be run, run, run, jump as ab06 accurately describes. If the field needs to take their time through trappy footing they do. Granted we do go on runs but the ones I have been on have been fairly short lived and only in good footing.

the other fun part about live hunting is when you can’t find the Huntsman and the hounds:lol: The field can hear the hounds voices but it cannot be determined where exactly they are in the woods.

#17

I’ve got a question about the laying of the scent for a drag hunt. Is it strictly done along the trails or do they somehow get the scent through the woods, thickets, etc. that a fox would normally use?

#18

[QUOTE=asb_own_me;3646641]
I :lol::lol::lol: at this. I doubt the errant letter was intentional, but the effect was priceless![/QUOTE]

Actually, it WAS…glad someone got the joke.

And thanks for all the great replies…keep 'em coming.

#19

[QUOTE=Elghund2;3647752]
I’ve got a question about the laying of the scent for a drag hunt. Is it strictly done along the trails or do they somehow get the scent through the woods, thickets, etc. that a fox would normally use?[/QUOTE]

We lay our drag on foot…so yes we work the woods and thickets. It’s a very rewarding job to play “fox” for the day. I pride myself in making the line interesting and lay the scent to mimic the way a fox might run. Our goal is to simulate live hunting to the best of our ability. It is not a steeple chase. Our territories are not large enough to support live runs but that does not mean it can’t be duplicated through the use of a well planned drag. I have hunted both live and drag for 14 years. I will continue to follow hounds in any form available to me!:yes:

#20

Well I’ll chime in as to why I want to start hunting. I was riding along on a beautiful fall day and up ahead in the field a beautiful big red fox jumped up and ran. Boy I sure wanted to give chase! It just seemed natural and fun. Much more so than chasing a dragged line.

There ended up being a whole family of foxes and they were casing out my mother’s chicken coop. One fox was hit in the road and found dead in the field. A second one my step father trapped (legally) :(. A third one is still at large. I was very disappointed to hear that big beautiful fox was trapped. I would have much rather given him a few good runs with a dog pack. That would have made him more wary and hopefully encouraged him to set up camp further from the chicken coop. We have had to remove fox before because they got so bold. One even chased our mutt out of the barn. They need to be controlled a bit. I would much rather give them a sporting chance first. I think a good sportin’ fox might even be worth a few chickens. :wink:

Get your Digital Subscription here - only $29.99 / year

Subscribe here
See gift options

Sign up to our monthly newsletter!

By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.

Copyright © 2023 The Chronicle of the Horse