Why does no one question horse prices?

[amb]

Sorry, yes, and thank you quietann that’s exactly what I meant. (I should not try and write when time-constrained, it always takes longer than I will think!)

To expand a bit more: I meant it as a point about the greater perils of everything being driven by money, which some parts of the eventing world are seeing more and more. The BNT shows up and demands adjustments to their convenience, or wants to monopolize the warmup, or otherwise be overly entitled, and if the show won’t play along they will take their string of students (and their $$$) elsewhere. The Eventing sub-forum has plenty of threads with first-hand accounts of this going on, although it’s certainly not all BNTs. (Possibly not all areas either.) I think there’s a lot to be said for eventing’s culture of independent horsemanship, long may it last. It’s not all at the feet of the BNTs, though, the students coming along and wanting more and more of a packaged experience are part of the equation too.

It’s all part of a larger debate about doing it for love vs doing it for money and the one-time huge divide between amateurs and professionals in horse sport. I almost made horses my entire life until the BNT I was riding with kicked my ass out and told me to go to college instead. (Still have mixed feelings about that.) Doing everything for love instead of an endless hustle for money sounds great but it ends up being elitist as all heck too. I do think big-money jumper tours and media events (hello IOC/FEI!) are driving things from the top though.

[Elles]

@self_made_hunter_jumper what kind/type of horses were you riding back then (when horses were less expensive?

I live in The Netherlands and people here are also complaining that horses have become very expensive. I remember after 2008/2009 for a number of years horses were quite cheap.

I do think prices in America are rather crazy compaired to Europe. I have no idea what the expense is of bringing a horse over from Europe.

I have this TB in training https://www.instagram.com/tv/CdC9C-xIerG/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= and to have him trained and shown in Holland does not cost me an arm and a leg. I do know training and competing are a lot more expensive in North America.

[findeight]

You really cant compare overall costs between two vastly different countries with multiple levels of boarding, training, showing, multiple disciplines, breeds and types and decide one is better. Its all relative to economics in that specific market and those markets are vastly different.

Last I heard, cost to import from Europe, which was between 10-12k usd for some time, is up considerably plus a rather nasty developmental issue in some of these horses has recently been identified that will influence decisions to import.

[BrendaJane]

the vitamin E thing?

I think the cost comes out in the wash: You either pay for the high prices of training and showing in the US,or you can tack that on as import fee to a European steed. And all things considered, 12 K is about - or less - than a years worth of training stateside.

[Elles]

12,000 is quite a lot of money. I remember the 90’s when a lot of Quarter horses were coming to the Netherlands from the US and these were at the time sold for around 10,000 Guilders (little less than eur 5,000). And still people must have earned some money on them.

[BrownDerby]

@clanter

maybe in its current version but our kids were all over the North America doing horse stuff (none being H/J) back in the 1990s yet were able to keep up with their studies… three graduated very high in their school’s classes (one was sixth, another was 15th, the third was in the top 10% …all of their gradating class were of at least 700 students)

I remember one year back in the 1990’s when, at the old Indio show, there were twelve (12!) classroom trailers on site, the most ever. Most of the high-level junior riders I knew were pulled from regular school and had tutors. (True of many other sports as well, I understand, like tennis, where they turn pro at 13).

[BrendaJane]

I don’t think the import to Europe is as crazy as to the US
and then, they might have bought ranch broke QH at auction for a song. FLy them across the Atlantic, and voila, the cowboy magic added a couple of zeros to the price.

[2DogsFarm]

Not necessarily.
In the mid-late 80s I rode with a gal who worked for Alitalia.
She told us about QH being sent to Italy for some (for the time) high prices. Horses from American QH breeders.

[findeight]

IIRC, still being in the Western breed show tent at the time, those Italians were well advised by their agents and bought top quality stock, not rejects. They eventually exported a top Reining trainer back to the US.

[bugsynskeeter1]

An Italian family is one of the all time leading breeders of Reining horses. A family from Great Britain is close behind.

[lenapesadie]

Hi @amb I debated on replying to you or not.

The BNT pulling for accommodations in a show may very well be new ish to your discipline/region. The why it’s happening though is likely quite similar to other disciplines/regions. There’s always two (or more sides) to a story. I imagine you can easily figure out why a BNT with a string of horses and riders might need accommodations. Given the dangers of riding cross country, a bit more coaching seems like a sensible trend.

Love or money. You and I can have horses for love. We make our living elsewhere. We need professionals; from trainers to grooms to barn owners to farriers. Those pros have to be able to earn a decent living or they’ll find a new career. It seems self defeating to frown on system that allows a rider to win a big purse or a trainer to hit a big lick on a sale. Good for them I say. Pray they stay in horses.

[Argo]

Could you please elaborate on the ‘nasty developmental thing’ affecting imports? I haven’t heard. Thank you.

[BrendaJane]

there are the top show people with more money than sense

and ther are a bunch of people who just want the nostalgia of the QH, Cowboys, campfires, and who did not feel like the average WB worked for them. Two very different markets.
Fueled by the equivalent of dime novels which romanticized the Old West. You know, John Wayne, Jimmy Steward…Lex Barker and Piere Priece…

[Scribbler]

But QH are very nice riding horses if you want good mind, trail ability, and bursts of speed. There might not be the equivalent exactly in Europe. Cobs fill some of the gap in England but I’d rather have a QH than a cob from what I’ve seen.

[BrendaJane]

they have them now as well. Not as many, the default is still a WB at least on the continent.

The reasons for buying a QH there are different than here though

[Elles]

For competing for example in hunters, reining, cutting.

[Elles]

Auction in action in The Netherlands, one day to go.
https://www.dutchhorsetrading.auction/collectie/2/all/-/all/sportpaard

English version:
https://www.dutchhorsetrading.auction/en/collection/2/all/-/all/sportpaard

[beowulf]

I am not @findeight but if I had to guess, they may be talking about recent findings in linking Vit-E to neurological disorders in the horse, example being EDM.

[BrendaJane]

true, but a lot of people bought and will buy a QH (in Europe) for the Pairie mystique to just ride trails.

That is fine, and a ranch broke steed works fine for that.
That is just a totally different market from the competition driven one.

[findeight]

Indeed. But I don’ t know enough about it to pontificate on its effect on importing when cant even remember the name.