Why does no one question horse prices?

[StB.YM]

@self_made_hunter_jumper

You make a really good point there - I wonder how often it is that trainers have flipped horses and sold to unsuspecting buyers at an insane mark up? This is one of the last unregulated industries…

Curious what this thread thinks. Do you think it’s acceptable to buy a horse, put nearly no effort into it, and sell it for 5x+ what you paid?

@self_made_hunter_jumper

I think you took my comments out of context. I was chewing on the thread about people continuously selling horses for 5x above what they paid to unsuspecting amateurs.

I’m curious - if a trainer makes their living off buying fresh, off the track TBs for $2k or less, deals with all of the health issues that come with these OTTBs, gets some basic training into them, takes them to some schooling or rated shows to get the horses started in a discipline, and then sells them for $10K - do you consider this unacceptable? After all, this is a minimum 5x increase in the base price paid for the horse. Or perhaps they got the OTTB for free from the owner or trainer - selling at $10k would be an infinite increase on the base price of $0.

If you now turn around and don’t allow that trainer to take in these horses and maybe turn a profit, you cut out a large proportion of decent, affordable mounts available to amateur owners and you have the problem even more OTTBs with no home to go to.

[self_made_hunter_jumper]

Not at all. I consider that good business. To be clear, the points I’m making are mainly about horses priced at $50k+

[endlessclimb]

Comeon lady. Buy em cheap, and sell em cheap. You’ll be the most popular girl in town!

Unless this is really all just sour grapes… which it sure sounds like it is…

[trubandloki]

@self_made_hunter_jumper

Because I have a problem with drugging horses - I’m the problem?

You did not start a thread about drugging horses. You started a thread about horse pricing.
And again, I doubt you are going to find anyone on this forum that thinks drugging horses is OK.

@self_made_hunter_jumper

Because I have a problem with money being laundered in this industry openly - I’m the problem?

When did we jump to money laundering?

@self_made_hunter_jumper

Because horses have given rise to organized crime and horrendous abuses of both humans and animals - I’m the problem?

Same question, when did we jump to organized crime?

Thank you @endlessclimb for quoting the whole thing before it vanished. I was quoting one line at a time and it vanished while I was in the middle of quoting the middle line.

[StB.YM]

So how does your response to my post agree with what you have already written:

@self_made_hunter_jumper

I was chewing on the thread about people continuously selling horses for 5x above what they paid to unsuspecting amateurs.

[self_made_hunter_jumper]

This thread is about pricing. You can’t tell me those three things don’t impact market conditions.

And yep I deleted it after the response that was clearly a threat.

There’s a Netflix documentary called Bad Sport - same stuff still goes on today. Insurance companies may have wised up, but the amateurs buyers haven’t and probably never will.

[self_made_hunter_jumper]

Please see my edit on the above - I’m talking about horses being bought/sold well above that price bracket.

[StB.YM]

A similar concept applies though for horses at an upper price bracket. A lot of those horses start off as expensive yearlings and are usually more expensive than a $2k 3 year old OTTB. For example, lets take a foal from the breeder that @beowulf mentioned, that costs $20k in utero. Fast forward 3-4 years to when that horse has been backed and maybe gone to one or two shows (schooling or otherwise) to show it demonstrates talent for that division - what would you - specifically - expect to pay for this horse and what do you - again specifically - think would be a fair price so that the breeder up to that point could continue running a profitable business (these are not OTTB non-profit charities - they need to make a profit to stay afloat).

Now fast forward 1-2 more years - as the owner/trainer you have been training and showing this horse successfully for the past 1-2 years and you go to sell this horse. Given the amount you paid for the horse (based on the previous paragraph), the investment you have put into this horse, and its success in the field - how much would you expect to be paid so that you could continue with your business model and keep it profitable?

[endlessclimb]

@self_made_hunter_jumper

And yep I deleted it after the response that was clearly a threat.

No. I’m asking you to prove it. You’re making some super serious allegations based on what? Your fantasy world? Prove it. You want to be Billy Bad Ass on here “calling people out” on their deceptive pricing, then drop that bomb on laundering and abuse without calling people out on it?

Give me a break.

You and your sour grapes can find somewhere else to whine.

[trubandloki]

@self_made_hunter_jumper

And yep I deleted it after the response that was clearly a threat.

Clearly a threat? I do not read any threats, let alone something that is “clearly a threat”.

[self_made_hunter_jumper]

I didn’t call any single person out specifically. I didn’t name names. I’m stating facts - maybe those facts are inconvenient for the people involved in those activities. I do find it interesting how those topics seem to prompt personal attacks on me, accusing me of being sour/bitter/poor/sad/whatever.

[Sleipnir]

OP, those are not personal attacks. The good people here are just calling spade a spade.

(btw, I am not involved in the “industry” and not even from the States. However, it seems to me that you are being overly dramatic and ranting over several topics without even saying anything to the point, yet accusing others of being nothing short of horse druggers and organised crime lords)

May I please have some guac now?

[endlessclimb]

Sorry, what was that? I couldn’t hear you over my money laundering machine, with all the drug bottles inside.

[KBC]

@self_made_hunter_jumper

“Put up or shut up” - I perceive that as a threat.

Well that tells me a lot, perceptions aren’t always based on global reality.

So these rocks cost me nothing, a bit of sweat equity and I have rocks.

I have seen them advertised at stupid amounts, so technically I could now go and sell them and make a huge profit. If I took the time and trouble to paint the nicest ones I could make bigger profit, by using my skill to produce something special.

The original owner put no value on them, I have them because I have a use for them, but I also realize their potential. That’s how the market works.

[StB.YM]

@self_made_hunter_jumper

I didn’t call any single person out specifically. I didn’t name names. I’m stating facts - maybe those facts are inconvenient for the people involved in those activities. I do find it interesting how those topics seem to prompt personal attacks on me, accusing me of being sour/bitter/poor/sad/whatever.

As someone who isn’t involved in hunter/jumpers, how would I even know or learn about what you are referring to or the activities that you say are occurring if no one gives specific examples?

[self_made_hunter_jumper]

Sure - fair point.

Now, say someone - or a group of someone’s - were to buy up all those rocks, and use the sale of said rocks to hide all the illegitimate ways they actually made the money to purchase said rocks. They obviously want to get top dollar for said rocks because they can launder the money faster. Now, suddenly, all the other rocks went up in price because the market is taking the rocks sold via money laundering at face value.

Hypotheticals are fun.

[endlessclimb]

@self_made_hunter_jumper

Now, say someone - or a group of someone’s - were to buy up all those rocks, and use the sale of said rocks to hide all the illegitimate ways they actually made the money to purchase said rocks. They obviously want to pay top dollar for said rocks because they can launder the money faster. Now, suddenly, all the other rocks went up in price because the market is taking the rocks sold via money laundering at face value.

I’m done. I give up. That’s it. This is not real.

[trubandloki]

@self_made_hunter_jumper

Sure - fair point.

Now, say someone - or a group of someone’s - were to buy up all those rocks, and use the sale of said rocks to hide all the illegitimate ways they actually made the money to purchase said rocks. They obviously want to pay top dollar for said rocks because they can launder the money faster. Now, suddenly, all the other rocks went up in price because the market is taking the rocks sold via money laundering at face value.

Hypotheticals are fun.

Someone bought up all the horses?

[self_made_hunter_jumper]

Obviously, as you can see from this thread, the horse industry is full of some…”characters” and some very powerful people.

Do you really think anyone with half a brain would post names/dates/farms on a public forum? At the very least they’d do it privately, through an encrypted messaging platform, like Signal. And they’d only speak to reputable journalists to ensure the integrity of the story were to stay in tact. As you can see from this thread alone, there’s plenty of appetite to discredit truth tellers.

[Jealoushe]

@self_made_hunter_jumper

Did he sell 150 race cars and make insane profit off of them repeatedly? Or did he sell one? There’s a difference there.

He has definitely sold more than one over the years!