I was being the impartial observer at a Pony Club Rating this past weekend in the cold and rain. One of the National Examiners, when hearing I was a driver, said “I bet your horse stands”, to which I answered, of course. She went on to talk about her event horse who did not stand. It is a pretty common problem I have talked about with other riding friends frequently since they are all amazed that my pony stands. My thought is that standing is very important to driving folks and trainers so they work on it, maybe not so important to riding trainers, so they don’t work on it as much. Really, if a horse won’t stand, how many of us are going to ever get around to driving him. To the point that one of my friends has decieded that she will send all her babies to a driving trainer first, to learn the ground work, then off to a riding trainer.
I’ve thought a lot about this myself, as none of my horses started life as a driving horse and all have had to learn how to stand! And they’re all school horses expected to behave sensibly and safely. But standing for more than a few minutes at a time had just not been asked of them.
Not long after I joined, someone on this forum – was it Goodhors? – suggested taking a book and sitting and reading while your horse learns patience. It was great advice. I also started timing our standing moments, building up the length of time they will stand before “needing” to move off.
We also stand in crossties, untied in harness, put to (but supervised) a vehicle. Oddly enough, Sparrow will now stand patiently as long as needed in harness and/or put to, but still becomes impatient U/S with a rider up. I have to think it’s feedback from the rider, don’t you?
Do you think there is a difference between standing tied and untied? I am assuming when you talk about standing a driving horse you are referring to untied.
I ask because western horses are traditionally trained to be tied and stand for a very long time; hours, days and over night.
[QUOTE=MSP;2913204]
Do you think there is a difference between standing tied and untied? I am assuming when you talk about standing a driving horse you are referring to untied.
I ask because western horses are traditionally trained to be tied and stand for a very long time; hours, days and over night.[/QUOTE]
I think the difference is you have to be a lot more vigilant during training if the horse is untied. You have to be there to correct every move. If he’s tied, you can just walk away and let time work its magic. :lol: I think a few good “patience lessons” standing tied can be a useful precursor for standing untied. Seems to accustom them to confinement – and the fact that they are not on their own program.
I think the OP makes a good point. A horse will generally live up or down to your expectations.
I also think that when driving people talk about “standing,” they are typically talking about a significantly longer period of time than most riding people.
Greg Ward - famous cutting horse trainer- never bothered to teach his horses to stand for mounting. Said they had enough to learn about cutting as it was, he wasn’t going to waste it on standing. Horses sent to him that knew how to stand still…came home ready to eat a cow with knife and fork…but smooth forgot how to stand 
it’s priorities, pure and simple.
I cross tie to groom and harness, but then, my pony is moved to the field or drive way and stands untied to have the vehicle brought up, harnessing to the vehicle, me to put on my helmet and gloves, get in and situated in the vehicle before being asked to move on. When we return, she stands to be unhitched until I tell her it is time to walk off. When we started, I had a lead attached to the gullet strap on her bridle. Now I still have the lead but it is thrown over her shoulder instead of my hand. When I am somewhere strange, I still prefer a header, not holding, just standing there.
We also stand in the ring, in the middle of a hazard, when talking to neighbors.
Many western horses are also taught to ground tie for long periods of time. That is frequently a “test” in Trail classes here at open shows. I think that is pretty close to what we ask of our horses.
My horse, who is not broken to drive, but is a draft cross, stands perfectly still untied both to tack up and un-tack, and has been trained from the beginning (as a 3 yr old) to stand until he is given permission to move. Same under saddle. It simply isn’t something most trainers of riding horses dwell on. They figure if they stand in cross ties and stand for mounting that’s good enough. I spent years training Standardbreds, I could “hook” my horses, go get my helmet, sunglasses, gloves, cup of tea, answer the phone, they never moved til I told them to move off. I guess it just depends on what you teach. Since an awful lot of the eventers and hunter/jumpers were Thoroughbred race horses in their former lives, there’s a really good reason why they don’t “stand”. With the exception of the starting gate, and the horse trailer, they never had to learn. Conversely, a fieldhunter’s most important gait is “whoa/stand”.
Well I guess I’m the oddball but I ALWAYS taught my riding horses to stand. With a physical handicap it was necessary for my safety. I also did a lot of cross-training (western/English) so all of my horses had good brakes, ground-tied and knew what hobbles were. This is the stuff I worked on when they were yearlings and two-year olds. They learned to tie - and learned to accept restraint - as weanlings. Consequently I expected a driving horse would stand.
What a surprised when I got my pony to find out she had to be tied up snug to even get tack on her! Well that sure changed in a hurry and she now knows better than to walk off until given permission
As far as living up or down to one’s standards I always think of something I heard a long time ago - if you expect nothing of a (child, horse, dog, etc.) that is exactly what you will get! So I expect quite a bit of my ‘kids’ and they usually surpass my expectations 
We start pretty early, with standing lessons. I have often taken the young horses to small shows, so they get to see things away from the farm. They are eligable for Halter classes, where they must stand fairly quietly for long times, as other horses move around them. Horse must pay attention to handler, lead, walk, trot, turn around, go back to stand again. I find the Halter practice at home, mostly comes to the show with you, so a class or two, has baby (under 4yrs) mostly paying attention to you. I get in the standing practices, obediences in leading at MY SPEEDS, going back by strange horses to stand until requested to move.
I consider any ribbon a bonus, because our horses are not usually typical for the area, NOT what the judges expect. I paid my money for practice time in the arena, horse learned from going. We also get in extra practice waiting in the make-up area, standing and looking about. I can emphasize obedience if needed, reset his stand or back him up until he is focused on me again.
We do the tie up at home, to solid objects after horse has learned how to tie well. We NEVER let them fight it out, they have lessons beforehand so they know how to release pull pressure. They are supervised, but tie times extend as they get more blase’ about the whole thing. I want them going to sleep out there. They graduate to tie stalls, not boxes for daily living. They get quite excited, I can REACH my friends! They bring FOOD, get over so it can come IN!! Tie stall is another big aid in training our young horses. Ours are stalled 8-10 hours a day, with pasture the rest.
We work at horses standing quietly, pretty still, for long times, ridden, in-hand, tied. This makes the Driving stand a big nothing. Again, what horse learns is what YOU consider very important. I think standing still for mounting is REALLY important, so we work on that too.
All myhorses (riding horses) learn to stand. I can bend, break, and pitch a branch or vines while standing in the stirrups of my riding horses… bothhands on the barnch or vine.
It takes dedication but it’s worth it.
The poster who mentioned standing in the middle of a hazard. If what you mean is to be walking through a scary creek and ask your horse to stop and ‘think’… or to stop midway up (or down) a slope… I have found that is a GREAT way to slow down a rusher and to get them generally acclamated to those scary things. sylvia
Actually, I was talking about driving hazards, obstacles on the marathon we have to negoiate. We want our horses to go fast in the hazards but must listen and do what we say. Stopping is just part of that and may be necessary if you get hung up or have an equipment problem.
I’d consider any horse that didn’t stand to be a horse that had severe and vital gaps in its training.
Whether its a riding horse or a driving horse standing is essential in terms of being able to manage your horse safely from the ground. I actually have never cross tied a horse. Rather when they are tied its just from their headcollar. But in truth for anything but the youngsters they don’t ‘need’ to be tied at all.
However there’s no doubt about it that there’s a difference with horses trained to drive. They spend an inordinate amount of time standing about whilst things are happening all around them and they’re not expected to move at all other than occasionally resting a leg.
I’ve had a lot of customers comment on the fact that when my horses are standing in the yard and someone trundles out with the harness rack which makes a heck of a lot of noise as its dragged across the concrete or else something unpredicted and unusual happens, that mine don’t do so much as bat an eyelid. Likewise when I do commercial work, they can be standing harnessed and waiting patiently for hours.
When I was in America I visited several ranches belonging to friends of my friends. One in particular had VERY impressive horses - Used for both work and shown in what I call your Western Dressage (all the fancy fast flashy work stuff?!). I rode one of their very nice stallions who was impecibly trained and well mannered and who stood quietly next to a VERY chaotic and noisy pen of cattle and vehicles and goodness knows what else for over 6 hours one day. That one could never be described as “just” a riding horse.
I would think next to a driving horse western stock horse or ranch horses would be expected to stand tied or untied. Ground tyeing is a basic requirement as well as hobbling. I think the ranch trail classes require ground tie and putting hobbles on and I have heard comments that when doing real ranch work away from home one hobbles the horse just in case.
My filly has never had any issues with standing and when I get around to the ground tie and hobble training I expect her to have no issues. My Standarbred gelding was OK with standing. It has been a while since I drove him but I don’t ever remember having a problem getting him to stand and I always drove alone.
Strange thing about my gelding; I can leave his stall door open and he will stand at the opening and not walk through and on a couple of occasions in the past I have found him standing in front of a downed fence but he never attempted to cross that line.
I think its just good manners.
I was severly disappointed the first time I saw a class A show for arabs. I’m thinking these should be the best of the best. The top trainers in the country, and they were the most disobediant horses. Any of our local 4-h kids could have out classed them. They circled and circled. The driving horses all at holders.
It amazes me how the amish horses, mostly STDS off the track stand like their rooted in the ground. Their owners leave them all over town to run into the feed store, post office, pizza shop even the dollar store and the horses hardly even flinch when a semi goes by. I’m thinkin they are just too tired to think about moving mostly just grateful to have stopped. I notice a few with pull ropes around the neck, but I have never seen a loose horse wandering.
Now my own herd has to stand before they enter the barn to be led in. They are not allowed to just walk through the door. Nothing worse then 17h horse thundering down the aisle way. After a workout they must stand in a line-up, even if they are the only ones. We slowly extend the time, but its good practice.
I had to laugh. My arab was in a road hack class doing very well when at an extended gallop the gal in front of us was in her way, unfortunately we were boxed in. My mare got angry slammed on the brakes and just started broncing. I stayed on awhile, but as I went to catch my balance I grabbed her crest braided mane and my hand missed and I fell over her shoulder. I laid on the ground unhurt but fuming as that witch went and stood in the line-up without ME. I was so embarrassed when the vol. fire dept. members all came running to save me! She looked at me like she could do that whole showing business without me obviously I just get in her way!
[QUOTE=Sithly;2913321]
I also think that when driving people talk about “standing,” they are typically talking about a significantly longer period of time than most riding people.[/QUOTE]
…LOL, been on the “A” Circuit lately? Those poor hunter horses stand around all day… and half the night as well if they need to be braided!
This of course came in as a vast advantage when I was retraining HRH for driving. To this day he still does the “A” Circuit thing and tries to catch a few zzzz’s when he’s halted at the in-gate - hitched or saddled makes no differ! :lol:
[QUOTE=War Admiral;2915928]
…LOL, been on the “A” Circuit lately? Those poor hunter horses stand around all day… and half the night as well if they need to be braided!
This of course came in as a vast advantage when I was retraining HRH for driving. To this day he still does the “A” Circuit thing and tries to catch a few zzzz’s when he’s halted at the in-gate - hitched or saddled makes no differ! :lol:[/QUOTE]
LOL, true! Though usually when I hear a rider complain their horse won’t stand, it’s because he won’t stand still long enough for them to get a foot in the stirrup and swing up. :lol: I can’t tell you how many horses I’ve seen walking their owners around in circles.
I’ve also noticed that while waiting for their classes at the local shows around here, the majority of western riders stand around on their horses. The majority of english riders walk around on their horses. Maybe they are warming up? I don’t know. Their horses seem to do all their waiting in the barn or on the trailer. Maybe it’s just the shows I’ve been to (no A circuit here!). I’m planning to watch and volunteer at some bigger shows this summer, so I’ll be able to increase my sample size.
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I…I have heard comments that when doing real ranch work away from home one hobbles the horse just in case.[/QUOTE]
We always hobbled when we were out working cattle and needed to take a break or eat or something. However I had one little Appaloosa stallion that I had to hang onto. He was a tough cow horse - smooth as glass to ride and great to rope off of - but he could gallop as fast WITH hobbles as withOUT them :uhoh:
And then there was this wonderful Molly mule “Cracker” (fancy QH mom) who could outwork and outlast any horse BUT once you mounted her in the morning you were up for the day. She would stand quietly or work hard all day however when you dismounted you’d better be back at the trailer because once you got off that’s where she’d be! I gave many a cowboy a lift back home. They just wouldn’t believe that THEY couldn’t hang onto this little ole mule… :LOL:
Well I don’t drive but do spend time in amazement looking through this forum. I come from the land of eventers, and we definately teach our youngens the fine art of being a couch, even the OTTB’s. Standing and hanging out is worked on daily. The track horses learn this from the first few weeks, whether it be standing in the cross ties until relaxed, or being a sofa while teaching another lesson. I have a young pony in now that was actually broke to drive pairs that WOULD NOT stand still. Drove me nuts! He would stand all day tied but once you were on danced around like an idiot. Needless to say we spent many a day standing in the middle of the arena watching lessons and learning Whoa! Now that boy just puts his head down and waits to be asked to move on.
I taught my gelding to stop and stand if he felt the rider go off or even way off balance. Just remembered this! Sometimes things come back to me at strange times. :winkgrin:
But this actually may have saved my life. I was a few months into training him as a riding horse (he had come from the track and had only been driven) and I was trotting him over poles and small cavalettis when he stopped dead in front of the third one. Just as I was adjusting to the stop he leaped in the air and jumped it; I came off. I am not sure if I was out or just confused and trying to get my bearings but I remember looking up from the ground and my foot was hung in the stirrup and that wonderful Standardbred was standing as still as possible looking back at me. Such a good boy!
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Likewise I’ve got a pair of horses who will stand all day when put to harness in the phaeton, shooting break, landau or Victoria and also when put to in a team in the road coach or as a single in the gig or trap. However when they’re put together to the cross country marathon vehicle, the very second I climb into the carriage, they’re off… and at a cracking pace and the grooms have to be quick (and I mean quick!) to mount the back-step.
This is acquired behaviour that’s totally my fault and responsibility. Because it causes me no difficulty and is generally what I’ve wanted I’ve never checked it and now they’ve got so eager I’m sort of thinking maybe that was a mistake! Particularly as last time we went out, there was 1 groom on board and the other running behind as fast as her legs would go and shouting for me to slow down!
