But we are not talking about scoring… That specific comment you picked out of my post was referring to what clinicians and pros define as a refusal, a stop, a run out, etc.
Later in that post you quoted, I did mention organizations and how refusals are classified as penalized disobediences. Which is exactly what you said. Lol.
I have never worked with a clinician or pro who defined a run out as a refusal.
You also have never had shavings in a brown paper bag with staples, which is an absolute norm here. Your experience doesn’t encompass everyone else’s experience. It just means we have different experiences.
I have had pros and clinicians that categorize a run out as a type of refusal, and the two are used interchangeably all the time including on this forum. I am tired of you cherry-picking parts of my post to prove a point I never made. I am your most responded to person, and it gets old.
I have definitely heard people refer to run outs as “had one stop on course” even though the horse blew by the fence.
Semantics and all that.
But would those horses have gone better or worse with a less neanderthal ride?
In my opinion they would go a hell of a lot better! They still are world class though. Just living in a hell.
Semantics and all that. One famous incident in British Eventing, a very inexperienced Fence Judge penalised multiple riders as “Unseated rider” as they went clear over the fence - in a forward seat.
I’m with @beowulf on this - I always call any failure to go over a fence a refusal. If I’m talking about my jumping day in generally (show or schooling) I will say she had X number or refusals as a general statement. When I get more specific/indepth, I will clarify with either stop or run out.
I have never had anyone (trainer, clinician, fellow rider), to my recollection, specifically differentiate between refusal and run out. In my corner of the world, refusal is the umbrella term and specifically it is either a run out or stop.
About 95% of the time, my horse runs out - and it is always because she doesn’t feel she can jump it. Either I have gotten to backwards or she is in pain. It’s an extreme rarity she stops at a jump and she has never crashed through a jump. She is honest and athletic and has always refused due to something tangible, opposed to any “meh, don’t feel like it” attitude. I have since day 1 had a habit of pointing her at the jump and essentially loose rein, hang out. I do not have great depth perception so I am not able to be so exact in telling my horse when/where to jump so she’s always had to figure it out herself. That’s how I teach all horses to jump…either because I’m a super talented trainer or because of the aforementioned depth perception issue…you decide.
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