Why is it so hard to find a safe trail horse?

[jody_jaffe]

I know several people looking for the same horse that I’m looking for with the same success rate: none. One buddy almost wound up in the hospital because she believed the ad on Dreamhorse.

Why is it so hard to find a horse that won’t bolt and spin when startled on the trail; one that won’t get flustered if other horses pass, one that can stop and steer and most important, one with a known history? There are plenty out there that have been with the current owner for a month or two and are billed as as close to bomb proof as you can find in a horse. Really? How could anyone know that after that short of a time?

Shopping for this kind of horse is worse than Internet dating, and possibly more dangerous

Many sellers are expert creative writers. But the one that takes the cake is the seller who told me to see video of her horse I should friend her Facebook under her Facebook name, which was completely different than her email and advertisement name. There may be a justifiable reason for using an alias, I just haven’t come up with it yet.

Have others in this forum had that experience?

[kasjordan]

I think the best trail horses sell by word of mouth. I know that I wouldn’t have to advertise either of my two trail machines. You might have more luck getting the word out to local barns, farriers, vets, trail riding friends than internet ads…Just a thought!

[lawndart]

[QUOTE=jody jaffe;7046218]
I know several people looking for the same horse that I’m looking for with the same success rate: none. One buddy almost wound up in the hospital because she believed the ad on Dreamhorse.

Why is it so hard to find a horse that won’t bolt and spin when startled on the trail; one that won’t get flustered if other horses pass, one that can stop and steer and most important, one with a known history? There are plenty out there that have been with the current owner for a month or two and are billed as as close to bomb proof as you can find in a horse. Really? How could anyone know that after that short of a time?

Shopping for this kind of horse is worse than Internet dating, and possibly more dangerous

Many sellers are expert creative writers. But the one that takes the cake is the seller who told me to see video of her horse I should friend her Facebook under her Facebook name, which was completely different than her email and advertisement name. There may be a justifiable reason for using an alias, I just haven’t come up with it yet.

Have others in this forum had that experience?[/QUOTE]

Because people tend to by for looks, not usefullness? My eye is caught too by a flashy horse, but IME if it is pretty, a good price, and no one nearby has snapped it up, you need to pass on it, or at least I do!

Sometimes the best horses are the jug headed, the not so conformationally correct, and a little bit older. Even then, if people have a good horse, they tend to keep it, as the guest horse.

Also, I think a good trail horse is seriously undervalued in the horse world. I can see the value in a horse that can jump anything, look pretty under tack going in a arena, and is so push button that it makes dressage look easy.

However, you are trusting a trail horse to take you miles from home, meet wildlife, rough terrain, loose dogs, screaming children, bicycles, motorcycles, vehicles of all sizes, and get you back safely. That takes a good mind. Sometimes a good mind comes in a pretty package, but I tend to look for the plain ones, the smaller than usual horses that get overlooked. I can still get in trouble with that criteria, by letting other people (DH) talk me into buying something I’m not quite sure of.

You can retrain a horse to be a trail horse, fix wrong angles on feet, fatten them up, slim them down, make them look prettier, and certainly you can add muscle and topline. But you cannot make a flighty minded horse into a good solid trail horse without out a lot of miles, wet saddle blankets, and quite a bit of risk. I’m too old for that stuff.

[Kyzteke]

Oooooooo, I know, I know (waving hand wildly).

Is it because very few people really know how to train a good trail horse these days, so then they develop all sorts of stupid, dangerous habits? Then they just pass them on to the next innocent person? Could that be it?

[GaitedGloryRider]

IME finding a good trail horse is easy…if you look in the right places.

Do you have any horseman’s camps near you? Go on a busy weekend, you’ll find trail horses for sale, I mean real trail horses and as an added bonus you’ll be able to try them ON a trail. I see signs hung on trailers all the time when I’m on camping trips “Horse For Sale”. Look for rigs emblazoned with farm names, go strike up conversations with people…you’ll find out who has trail horses to sell. See a horse you like? Strike up a conversation with the rider, ask if their horse is for sale. Worst they can say is no, maybe they know someone who has a similar horse far sale, can point you in the direction of who they bought their horse from. Yes, horse camp is a great place to find a made trail horse.

Another option if you want a dead-head beginner safe type is to hit up your local rent-a-nag stable. Those places will generally consider offers on their horses too. Maybe they’ve got a great trail horse that happens to be a little too quirky for the string, too slow, too fast, doesn’t like to stay in the line, simply isn’t fitting in but with minimal polishing would make a great one-person horse.

You could also get acquainted with other trail riders in your area. Local Horseman’s Councils, Endurance riders, Mounted Search and Rescue groups…odds are those folks will know someone who has trail horses for sale. Look them up, give them a call, heck even join their group go to some meetings and rub some elbows. Not only will you probably find some nice horses for sale but you could also make some great new trail buddies.

Ask your farrier and your vet. Undoubtedly they’ll have some trail riding clients and some of them may have seasoned trail horses for sale. My farrier is a trail rider, his grandpa is treasurer for my local chapter of the OHC. Every dang time he’s out doing my horses he is tells me about some great horse someone is selling.

For finding a finished, ready to go, cross anything, climb anything, “professional” trail horse it’s best to get one that has already been doing the job. A big part of what makes a good trail horse is miles so you want one that plenty of miles on it already. Some horses that have never been on a trail or only have minimal experience will take to it like a fish to water but some won’t and if you don’t want to take that gamble best to find one that has already proven itself on the job. Some horses may not start out so great but can get there with a lot of hard work and wet saddle blankets but again, if you don’t want to take that gamble…find a horse that knows the job. Personally I prefer a trail horse that naturally enjoys the job…it is too dangerous out there on the trail to be on a horse that doesn’t particularly want to be there.

I think the biggest problem a lot of people have buying a trail horse is getting over that “JUST a trail horse” mentality. Not every horse can be a really great trail horse, some simply are not cut out for it. Getting a horse to grudgingly trudge through the trees behind the barn wild-eyed and on alert is a far cry from a calm, relaxed horse that will dive down any trail head (in a group or alone), nonchalantly face down anything from a snake to a logging truck, can be trusted to pick the right footing in a tight spot and especially trusted to safely tell its rider “NO” when it just plain isn’t safe to go there.

In short, find a horse that’s already doing the job. To do that, you need to get yourself acquainted with people who seriously trail ride (not weekend warriors and facebook horse traders). And if you’re looking at trail horses off the internet make sure you can try the horse on a trail before buying. When you try the horse, try it in the lead, try it in the rear of the line, try to get on some hills and maybe even over a water crossing.

You wouldn’t buy a finished cart horse without seeing it hitched up, you wouldn’t buy a hunter without seeing it go over some fences, you wouldn’t buy a barrel horse advertised as running 1D times without seeing it turn some cans, you wouldn’t buy a cutting horse without seeing it work cows…don’t buy a trail horse that you haven’t seen on trails. And finally, expect to pay for a good trail horse. Maybe that $500 pasture puff advertised on local CL will be a good trail horse but maybe it won’t. For a horse that has proven itself on the trail someone has put in a lot of wet blankets getting it to that point. That is worth something and good trail horses, their price will reflect it.

[AlmostDun]

Two reasons come to mind.

One is the breeding. In the past a lot of horses were backyard bred. Family X had a little mutt mare they kept picketed between two trees in the backyard. Family Y down the street had a little stallion out of a draft mare and a whistling stranger. Neither beast was much to look at conformation-wise, but they’d survived living in the backyard for ten years without killing themselves or any of the kids. Put the two together and you’ve got a pretty good shot at a colt with a steady temperament.

These days, in contrast, the right to breed tends to be determined by show record. A certain sparkle is needed to stand out in the show ring. Sparkle tends to get you slightly hotter. Not insanely hot, but enough to mean the difference between spook & shudder vs spook & spin.

The other reason is training. Family X had five kids, mutt mare, and mutt mare’s colt. Every day the kids would come home from school, squabble over who got to ride, and set off with two kids bareback on mutt mare and one on the colt. When colt unloaded his kid and ran home, one of the other kids would gleefully hop on and ride him back out to find the sibling pack. Two hours of this every day for five or ten years would produce a pretty bombproof horse. Then when the youngest kid hit 18 and set off to college, mutt mare and her colt were no longer needed. Ad goes in the paper, and some other lucky family gets some awesome riding ponies.

Nowdays, you don’t have many Family X’s. Instead you’ve got families with only one or two kids and both parents working. The kids spend their two hours after school doing daycare activities instead of falling off ponies out in the woods. The ponies spend more time in the paddock and the ring, and less out in the woods being exposed to weird stuff.

So, you’ve got a pool of slightly hotter show horse genes with less exposure to the world. There are still families that put a lot of miles on their horses. However, these families live and breathe horses. They aren’t going to unload the family horse in a want ad just because the kids grew up. The horses that end up in the want ads are the ones that have been sitting around doing nothing or are too much horse for the family to handle.

[chicamuxen1]

I tried to send this by private message but it wouldn’t go thru.

This is not an ad, just passing on info about a friends horse.

http://virginiaequestrian.com and search for the word Moyle. The mare is an Arabian/Moyle crossbred.

I know the woman selling this horse, She has been the Treasurer for the Old Dominion Endurance Rides, Inc. for many years. This is a nice, laid back, stout mare. She just isn’t a great endurance horse and Susan has bought a purebred Arabian to go forward with her endurance competing. This horse hasn’t been used hard and worn out. Susan has had the horse for many years but she had to take a break from endurance so the mare had lighter use. She was loaned out for a while for lessons and did well at that too. She has been used for pleasure riding, Ride and Tie competition and some endurance riding. She can carry larger riders and should be a good husband horse. She will buy the horse back if you don’t like her. Susan is very honest and open. I’d suggest if you are still looking for a horse that you call or email her and ask about this horse. Oh, do some searching about the Moyle breed, very interesting.

Bonnie Snodgrass

[mzpeepers]

Because training and making a good trail horse, a REALLY good trail horse, the kind that is just about bombproof, quiet, fun to ride etc., etc., takes time. A horse like that would be priced on the high end of the spectrum, yet most people don’t want to pay good money because it’s “just for trail riding”.
Also, I have two that are exactly what you’re looking for. I put years into them and wouldn’t part from them for the world. Paople that have those kind of horses tend to hang on to them.

[Eclectic_Horseman]

I have heard many of my friends, some of whom are lifelong riders, ask the same questions. The reasons that there aren’t as many good trail horses out there are varied:

1. Horses are healthier and hotter than ever. When I was growing up, there was no effective wormer other than tube worming which is dangerous and was not regularly done. Feeding was hit and miss without so much nutritional science behind it. So, in general, horses have more energy than they did when I was a kid in the dark ages, riding halter and lead line, bareback on the trails (without a helmet!)

2. Sadly, there are fewer trails and fewer trail riders. Some people in dressage or hunter circles think that “going for a hack” means walking around a big field outside the ring. So horses get less exposure to real trails. Even where there are lots of accessible trails, I think the majority of riders these days are mature adults and they have less time to ride due to the pressure of jobs and families.

3. Also, in suburban settings horses have to share the trails with joggers, mountain bikers and dog walkers, as well as deer and other wildlife. This makes trail riding a lot less horse friendly since there is more to spook from than there was when I was growing up.

How to find a good trail horse? The best way is to find one in your local area that is trail riding NOW. Difficult to find because people don’t let the good ones go. The reason I say your local area is because a horse that is familiar with all the obstacles in another area may not be familiar with the hazards in your area (traffic, deer, running water, loose dogs, etc.) Some horses are better in fields where they can see things–and are terrible in the woods where they cannot. Another factor is the same as with making sure that a horse’s temperament will not change because of different environmental factors like feed, turnout time and other amounts of exercise. In addition to how tiring the trail environment is like whether it is steep, has deep sand or other factors that might take more energy.

So my advice is stick very close to home. Get the word out about what you are looking for, and what you can offer as an owner. You may luck out that way with someone who can no longer keep their perfect trail partner.

[horsetales]

Agree with what others have pointed out. Need to evaluate what is between the ears first and not care so much about the pretty package. Also, a good-great mind often comes with a higher price because people know what they have. yet, buyers all too often believe a quiet, proven trail horse should be cheap.

At the end of summer, camp horses will be on the market as well as summer trail ride places thinning herds for winter. I will also throw in a plug for Irish Draughts - they were bred for foxhunting and are desired because of their great minds out in open fields with lots going on. I just had a buyer e-mail me a pic of a super green ID I recently sold on their 1st summer hunt ride. Away from the group and she has a totally relaxed look in the pic and the owner is super thrilled with the mind.

[GaitedGloryRider]

Maybe it’s just a regional thing but around here we’ve got a fair amount of people who specifically breed and train trail horses, some who make a pretty decent living at it. There is no shortage of good trail horses in fashionable colors with or without spots, with plenty of flash and a good solid work ethic and calm demeanor to back it up. Like I said above though, you’ve got to travel in the right circles to find out about them. Their horses sell well enough they don’t have to advertise and nobody at any of the show barns are going to know they even exist. I know a few that show their horses, just local stuff to prove the horse can do it to appeal to those trail riders who want some versatility in and out of the ring.

I did a trail clinic a couple weeks ago with a local trainer…the riders were a mash-up of everything from hard-core endurance riders to brand-spanking-new first time horse owners. No big surprise the most of the new owners weren’t mounted very well for the 25 mile ride and were blown away by how good the real trail horses were, even the green ones. A lot of “how did you get your horse so good on the trail?”, “how can I get my horse to behave like that?” and “where did you buy that horse?” questions. I have a feeling the clinician will be selling a few of his attendees new horses in the future…he happens to breed and train some dang nice trail horses.

There are people making nice trail horses specifically to sell, and some even breeding them. Problem is finding them, they aren’t nearly as visible as the BYB hicks spamming up the Farm & Garden section of CL, the show horses many nice barns offer, and the OMG-the-bad-man-is-coming facebook dealers.

[Cashela]

Because no one wants to pay the money to buy the safe sane trail horses. People have to put a lot of work into a horse to make it that way and that costs money and everyone thinks they can get a trail horse cheap. That drives me crazy…

[katarine]

It’s hard to buy a good trail horse, yes it is, b/c it’s hard to put them in enough situations to feel like you’ve tried them out. I think you need to spend some time in some horse camps and see what you turn up. www.horsetraildirectory.com has state by state listings. Go to horse camps. Ask your farrier and vet. Ask at the feed store. Don’t aged 10 or older is ideal. Join Facebook groups near you that are trail horse focused…you have to beat the bushes sometimes

and can you ride? Few horses are out there that just don’t care if all the other horses go on ahead- almost all will wiggle. Lots of good trail horses are total deadheads in second place but suck at leading the trail. Some prefer to follow and are afraid to go out alone. The rider has to have some skills in order to be successful- they have to participate.

[Malda]

[QUOTE=Cashela;7046380]
Because no one wants to pay the money to buy the safe sane trail horses. People have to put a lot of work into a horse to make it that way and that costs money and everyone thinks they can get a trail horse cheap. That drives me crazy…[/QUOTE]

This. I’ve been trail horse shopping three times now, and my husband has me at a $5,000 limit, which is the problem horse range. If I could get to the $7-10,000 range I could have bought a nice, safe, experienced trail horse. People tend to think trail riding is easy and any horse can do it, so they’re surprised when a good horse is as expensive as a decent show horse.

[GotGait]

Because no one wants to pay for a good trail horse. They think a trail horse should be cheap even though it takes time to make a good one. My friend’s pleasure horses are priced about $7000, but people think paying more than $1000 is too much. She has a buyer who went through 3 other horses, ultimately spending more, before going back to her.
It’s not cost effective for most people to sell trail horses when show horses bring more $$$$.

[oliverreed]

I am now 5 years into the process of trying to make a good trail horse out of my reactive, high strung Paso Fino. He’s getting better (at age 8). I would never sell him as a trail horse (will hopefully never sell him, period.). He tries HARD and I can handle his occasional teleportation and “only in reverse” mode. Wouldn’t want anyone else to try this on him. Good luck, lots of good advice on this thread.

[Bogie]

Often I think the lack of training goes with the low price tag.

There are some horses that are great from day 1, others who need more training, and the rare few that aren’t suitable.

But a good horse is a good horse and those don’t come cheap.

As a foxhunter, I see a ton of good trail horses who are amenable to going through or over most things and are rarely spooked by bikes or dogs.

[Ridge_Runner]

I agree with many of the above comments. I had a lovely 14:1 grulla registered Spanish Mustang gelding for sale last summer. He had a rack on him so was gaited. While not 100% bombproof, he was very close…it took quite a lot to get him to even look askance at anything and then he’d just stop and look…anyone could ride him…kids, etc… Would do anything on the trail, front, middle, back, move off alone…well his only “hole” was that he was not good in an arena doing WTC, circles, etc… Didn’t have much schooling on the flat and wasn’t really on the aids…would pop his shoulder, try and be nappy and was a bit hard to get into a canter. I got him in exchange for a young horse and that was how he came. He’d been in a therapeutic riding program and was a lazy natured horse.

People would try him and exclaim over his trail riding but then would ride him in the ring and decide he wasn’t “perfect” and pass. I mean it was stupid. The useless trainer that had him who was supposed to be working on his flat work didn’t…she had kids riding him all day giving lessons on him and playing so he wasn’t getting schooled. To say the least, she was fired when I found out.

I had a $2,500 price tag on him and no one would pay it…they wanted utter perfection at that price. It was ridiculous. I brought him home and then he ended up in S. Dakota with an acquaintance who runs a Conservancy Ranch for Spanish Mustangs and needed a dude horse. She posts pics of him all the time on facebook carrying her kids and interns all over the place. I nearly gave him to her and did not get close to my asking price but it was a good home and got him off my feed bill.

I wondered where all the folks were that wanted a perfect trail/kid safe horse when I had him for sale? I think people’s expectations can be a bit off. I know the economy sucks and horses are cheap but that was absurd. Kid safe horses are not that easy to find.

[GaitedGloryRider]

I poked around on (I think) your local craigslist and found a few potentially good trail horses:

http://swva.craigslist.org/grd/3843769789.html

(Iffy, I like to see pics of the horse doing something other than eating but it’s possible the ad isn’t BS): http://swva.craigslist.org/grd/3845490831.html

This horse has probably been to horse camp a time or two: http://swva.craigslist.org/grd/3834530484.html

Little small, don’t know how big of a horse you’re looking for: http://tricities.craigslist.org/grd/3842255507.html

Video shows him road riding: http://tricities.craigslist.org/grd/3806344407.html

Can’t go wrong with a horse that’s done field trials: http://tricities.craigslist.org/grd/3851097194.html

When perusing trail horse ads things that catch my eye are pics of the horse actually out on the trail (in trail gear, with saddle bags to presumably carry lunch for all-day rides), pics in water crossings where the horse looks relaxed, buzz words like “field trials”, “horse camp”, “trail ridden at X, Y Z” and anything else that indicates the horse has done long rides multiple times.

I tend to look over ads where there is only one pic of the horse and it isn’t even saddled or contains wording like “would make great trail horse” or “has been used on trails” (people selling a really good trail horse will typically be quick to say where the horse has been and how much). I also skip over ads where trail experience seems to be an afterthought in the ad, and it is the horse’s breeding, color or show experience being touted. And finally as a general rule of thumb I’d never, ever consider pretty much anything halter-bred as a trail prospect. Too many other good horses out there to wade through that crap hoping to find a diamond in the rough.

[Cabaret_SK]

I have one out on lease now - he can be hot (but not spooky) and strong, so doesn’t fit most people’s descriptions, but is solid and bombproof. Also, he was turned down by many for being 20 - perfectly sound, but people don’t want an aged horse. He does check the “pretty” box, though.

What others have said about price tag holds true too! And as mentioned above, he went out by word of mouth.