Hi there!
I’m from Ireland, and I’m fascinated with all things Equestrian in the US, everything and everyone just seems ridiculously glam and beautiful over-there!
However, I’ve always wondered, where are all the pony jumpers? In Europe 148cm ponies jump Grand Prixs of 135cm upwards to sometimes 145cm, and they are the most brilliant classes for U16 riders.
I know there’s the Pony Finals, which go up to a maximum of 1.20m, but it seems like there is a huge “gap” in the US for GP Pony Showjumpers, and I’m just wondering why do you think that is. There’s a massive amount of ridiculously talented 13 \ 14 year old riders jumping horse GPs at WEF etc, so surely there’s a gap for 138cm ponies in a 1.25m GP or a 148cm 1.35m GP.
I think this largely has to do with the presence of hunters and equitation in the US and Canada. Many young riders move off ponies to compete in the big eq, which is a more popular discipline than pony jumpers.
A lot of trainers over here have the philosophy that younger kids are better off in the equitation or hunter rings, where they’re judged more on their ability to control the horse and put in an elegant round vs. whether they can go fast. Pony jumpers is often seen as sort of “off time;” I know trainers who won’t let their pony riders go in the jumper ring at all until they’ve put in a few nice equitation rounds earlier in the week – it’s like a little celebration for them on Sunday, when they finally get turned loose!
I also get the impression that kids in Europe stay on ponies instead of horses for much longer than our kids do, although I’m not sure why. I’ve always wondered if it has something to do with how removed we are from the FEI Pony world? I don’t know the numbers on this, and honestly I’m mainly basing it on what I’ve seen in eventing, but it seems like talented European kids have some kind of incentive to stay on ponies through the 1.3m range, whereas ours start moving to full sized horses once they get to around the 1m range.
[QUOTE=pacific_jumper;8755214]
I think this largely has to do with the presence of hunters and equitation in the US and Canada. Many young riders move off ponies to compete in the big eq, which is a more popular discipline than pony jumpers.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, they just move on to horses. There are plenty of young riders competing at similar or higher heights to the pony jumpers in the US just on horses. The one advantage of the pony jumper system is it allows “championship” type experience at a younger age then young riders.
The real reason is there’s no money in it for the trainers… When is the last time you saw a $200,000 jumper pony , that generally equates to an $40,000.00 commission , x’s that by 3 for a small, medium, large spanning a childs life time in the pony hunters from age 6 to 14 and and your looking at $13-$14,000 per year in income form that one child just on commissions Factor in the Trainer fees per day for a 5 day horse show week of hunter classes , compared to maybe two days of Jumper classes and again it’s a matter of generated income, Hunters/ Equitation = dollars , Jumpers not so much.
Oh and a PS: A Trainer can’t just produce a jumper out of a syringe , there has to be some actual teaching of riding involved
I think more kids ride horses here. I don’t have experience w/ jumpers, but this is just he general feeling I got when I asked a year or so ago if a pony or horse would be better for my daughter.
[QUOTE=MIKES MCS;8755610]
The real reason is there’s no money in it for the trainers… When is the last time you saw a $200,000 jumper pony , that generally equates to an $40,000.00 commission , x’s that by 3 for a small, medium, large spanning a childs life time in the pony hunters from age 6 to 14 and and your looking at $13-$14,000 per year in income form that one child just on commissions Factor in the Trainer fees per day for a 5 day horse show week of hunter classes , compared to maybe two days of Jumper classes and again it’s a matter of generated income, Hunters/ Equitation = dollars , Jumpers not so much.[/QUOTE]
Top class Grand Prix ponies would make the equivalent of $200,000 in Europe, most definitely for 148cm ponies. However, I never realised that Jumper shows were so much shorter than Hunter. Insightful! Thank you
[QUOTE=RockstarPony;8755215]
A lot of trainers over here have the philosophy that younger kids are better off in the equitation or hunter rings, where they’re judged more on their ability to control the horse and put in an elegant round vs. whether they can go fast. Pony jumpers is often seen as sort of “off time;” I know trainers who won’t let their pony riders go in the jumper ring at all until they’ve put in a few nice equitation rounds earlier in the week – it’s like a little celebration for them on Sunday, when they finally get turned loose!
I also get the impression that kids in Europe stay on ponies instead of horses for much longer than our kids do, although I’m not sure why. I’ve always wondered if it has something to do with how removed we are from the FEI Pony world? I don’t know the numbers on this, and honestly I’m mainly basing it on what I’ve seen in eventing, but it seems like talented European kids have some kind of incentive to stay on ponies through the 1.3m range, whereas ours start moving to full sized horses once they get to around the 1m range.[/QUOTE]
Interesting!.. In Ireland at least, I think there’s 2 reasons. 13 year old riders can’t compete above 1.20 unless they make an application to the national committee who seek a report for their trainer, and for 14 year old riders you must have an application made by a member of the High Performance Team to the national body. So it’s hard to ride horses before you’re 15.
In ponies here (for 148cm at least, which is all I ever did), 1m is just starting! Many pony shows for 148cm ponies only start at 90cm\1m. There’s also a Spring Tour league which runs Feb\March, and the top riders go to a Nations cup show in France in April. Then the 1.30 RDS (national championship) qualifiers and 1.35 Premier Pony league run until September, and theres other qualifiers to go on Nations Cup teams. There’s also 2 1.20 leagues. In Ireland everything seems to be directed towards making it to 1.20\1.30 GP !
[QUOTE=Roisin^;8756476]
Top class Grand Prix ponies would make the equivalent of $200,000 in Europe, most definitely for 148cm ponies. However, I never realised that Jumper shows were so much shorter than Hunter. Insightful! Thank you[/QUOTE]
We really do just stress more hunters and equitation here. It’s just part of our system, and yes it definitely brings more money to the table at a lower level of competition. Even though some of the amazing Poines across the pond can sell for the big money you mentioned, they have to have a kid that is capable of riding at that level in order to be sold for that kind of price. In US pony hunters, you can have a family spend $200,000 for a kid to jump 2’6" (76 centimeters??) on, which is typcially going to have a wider pariticpation group then the heights you mentioned for your top ponies.
In other words, our big money ponies don’t have to wait around for a kid talented enough and experienced enough to jump the size fences that some of your big money ponies may. They can go to the highest bidder, wether the kid is walk trotting and just learning to jump, or doing the pony division and barely hanging on. Think of it as spreading the “wealth” all the way down to the lower levels.
P.S. your pony jumper kids are unreal! I always get a kick out of watching them and their trusty (or not so trusty) ponies. I wish I had as much guts as some of those little ones :winkgrin:
ETA: also, as a future parent, I am more comfortable with my little peanut jumping lower fences and going slow (hunters), as opposed to super fast at Grand Prix Pony Level. I think we cater to that mentality a bit more over here as well. Everyone can participate, spend lots of money, and not give parents a quick heart attack :lol:
