In the past *if* the TB was mainly the breed used in the hunt field and it currently only makes up roughly +/- 1/3. I would say they are being replaced to some degree. Of course they not being replaced fully, that is not what I meant at all. The question was also posed to those that hunt on a regular basis and hunting is their discipline of choice. I assume such people chose their horse with the intentions of using it for hunting.I agree with much of what has been said. TB’s just aren’t ‘in’ these days for a number of reasons. One has only to peruse COTH stallion issues over the years to see that where once, most of the ads were for TBs standing as performance/sport horse sires, this last issue had zero, I think. So, seems like the only way to get a tb is breed 'em yourself or get a track reject.
I first rode selle francais horses in France back in late 60s/ early 70s, and really, really liked those rides. Sure 'nuff, all these years later selle francais and other warmbloods are much sought after (anybody old enough to remember the one selle francais that did well on the point to point circuit- Randy Waterman owned it I think).
That said, I do think the tb is very much the best for hunting. The best horses I’ve hunted over the years were tbs. Actually, the very best was 1/4 percheron- but I didn’t know that when I hunted him, only learned the fact when I read his obit in the Chronicle (the famous Gilhooley’s Ghost). Ironically I have mostly hunted qh’s, because that’s what I had when I started hunting, and the first one hunted 20 seasons.
I’m no breeding expert, but I would bet that the very best hunting warmbloods end up being mostly tb. I know my most recent warmblood, an Oldenburg/qh cross, had much tb on the Oldenburg side. So I suppose the argument could be made that for hunting, ‘tb or tb cross’ still predominates.
Other than the aforementioned Gilhooley, I’ve never been able to muster any enthusiasm for drafts or draft crosses. I hunted a borrowed Morgan/Percheron cross once that I thought was dreadful. But it could have been that despite representations otherwise, I don’t think she really had ever jumped a coop before in her life, and we jumped a bunch in an hour and a half before her lack of conditioning made it really, really smart to call it a day.
But- draft and other breed fans- let me just close by saying that the ‘best breed’ for hunting is really what the rider likes best. It is supposed to be fun, and it’s no fun if you are riding a horse that doesn’t suit you. I’d really rather see EVERYONE out on the horse of their choice, the more the merrier!
A good horse is a good horse. Just now there’s a tennessee walker mare packing a kid around in Nevada that I would steal in a heartbeat.
I’d have to say that I agree 100% with Trakener. Most people who I see hunting are not very good riders. . . and don’t want to work at it. I started out with a Morgan cause that’s what I had, and he was very game. I always thought TBs were “too hot”, but then
I got smarter and found out that the good ones were the best for hunting and both my Morgan & the draft cross I had next tried hard but were not built for all that galloping, it was difficult to keep them fit enough. . . So now my husband and I both hunt TBs who were track rejects. They are the best hunt horses IMO, but I agree that they are not for everyone - they do not tolerate a heavy hand, or generally poor riding. And some of them are not easy keepers, so do require extra care in that regard. One of ours doesn’t have the best feet, but otherwise I wouldn’t trade them for anything !
But that’s not what you asked.
Why is the TB being replaced in the hunt field?
is the title and question.
Perhaps a more appropriate title to get you the answers you want would be “Why are TB’s in the hunt field not as numerous as in the past?” or “Why is there an influx of horses other than TB seen in the current day hunt field?”
Both of which have been answered here by people who hunt.
There has been an influx over the past 30 years of European warmbloods in all manner of horse activities. There are more choices, a horse for a rider as it were. There have always been drafts, draft crosses and a wide assortment of fabulous pony breeds hunting.
The question was also posed to those that hunt on a regular basis and hunting is their discipline of choice. I assume such people chose their horse with the intentions of using it for hunting.
Yes, and many of the long time hunters who responded have said that they chose a TB for it’s stamina, it’s ability to keep up with hounds in first flight, for its agility and athleticism.
I posed your question to several long time foxhunters and the general response has been that the TB has the overall talent and ability to do everything needed for a confident rider in the hunt field, especially riding first flight.
" … the first flight is almost all TB’s. We get the occasional cross but not often. Most of the crosses tend to be in the hilltopping fields. Also most hunts are 80/20 or 90/10, hilltopping vs. first flight. So the need for speed isn’t there."
The territory of a particular hunt probably dictates to a good degree the type of horse bought specifically by a hard core foxhunter. Some hunts are known to be a slower riding group than others, partially due to the territory they hunt.
I still feel that people ride what they have. People who are shopping specifically for a hunter are going to be looking for a TB or TB crossed with some heavier breed if they have a breed preference. I’d bet those who advertise Made Fox Hunters for sale don’t often get asked to bring out their Arabs or Saddlebreds or Friesians, although, depending upon the particular horse, those would make fine mounts for a person to take out.
A good horse is a good horse
Who cares what breed you hunt? A good horse is 1) well suited to the activity 2) fits the rider physically 3) is compatible to the riders skill level/temperament. Beyond that I don’t give a rodents behind… Sounds like some people need to feel superior because they ride breed x or y. Well, gee I am happy for you, why can’t you just enjoy your horse and press on without looking for reasons to critique others choices. For what it is worth I have hunted the following: Morgans, QH’s, OTTB’s, Paints and Draft Crosses. Some were good and some were bad, none of the deficiencies were breed specific.
I currently hunt a paint. She is quick, smart, surefooted, a 100% reliable jumper and very cool headed. She makes any days hunting just that much more fun. I didn’t buy her for her color. I bought her for her mind and her way of going. I am happy for all those that ride and enjoy their TB’s (I hope all the OTTB’s find good homes). But please just go out and enjoy your horse.
Sorry, I am crabby being at work today as the weather nixed our hunt (again!)
[QUOTE=Ponyclubrocks;3785638]
Who cares what breed you hunt?
Sorry, I am crabby being at work today as the weather nixed our hunt (again!)[/QUOTE]
The OP posed a very good question (and it was not remotely about actually caring for what breed anyone hunts; hope you get out hunting soon 
)
Lots of good answers. I would hazard a guess too that when hunting began here in the states it was done mostly by landowners who had access to blood horses and those types of horses were actually needed to cross the open lands that were once regularly foxhunted. Of course, a lot of those lands are now asphalted etc. 
Also, back then TBs may well have been quieter in disposition because they have been inbreed a lot more since those days. TBS ARE bred to RACE, not to run pell mell out of a fixture and then halt and stand quietly countless times as the day wears on. (This does not appear to appeal to a lot of them).
A huge attraction of the drafties is the variety to be found; you are crossing 4 plus draft breeds (I always begin with the four basics, Clyde, Shire, Perch, Belgian) with any number of other breeds (the TB and QH come to mind as the most successful crosses). You get a lot of different horses with a lot of differing abilities.
I have seen some DCs that are real stinkers, as bad as they come, BUT from a statistical standpoint, I believe that you stand a far greater chance of finding a DC that will hunt quietly and stand up to the rigours of the hunt field than you do with other breeds.
You can also start with a quiet, coarser DC and depending on your level of riding and where you hunt, you can move up to a more refined DC if you so desire…and you will see this type in some of the faster hunt fields in America, and keeping up with hounds too!
Wateryglen’s post is worth a re-read, she hits on some salient points.
But I will concede, a QUIET TB is probably the best horse overall, but the problem is finding one that is quiet, has 4 good feet, four sound legs, a brain, no skin problems, and can live on air and stay out 24 x 7.
They are rare.
OH, and I loved the comment about weight - I had not seen it phrased as such, but I like to see people who “match” horses; nothing is more unattractive (and I see this frequently) than a 6’4" gentleman in newly purchased hunt togs on a 15 handish $500 fresh-off-the-track-racing-fit narrow weedy plain bay nervous TB with a bowed tendon.
Yukko
And a “paint” is what breed?
[QUOTE=Ponyclubrocks;3785638]
Who cares what breed you hunt? A good horse is 1) well suited to the activity 2) fits the rider physically 3) is compatible to the riders skill level/temperament. Beyond that I don’t give a rodents behind… Sounds like some people need to feel superior because they ride breed x or y. Well, gee I am happy for you, why can’t you just enjoy your horse and press on without looking for reasons to critique others choices. For what it is worth I have hunted the following: Morgans, QH’s, OTTB’s, Paints and Draft Crosses. Some were good and some were bad, none of the deficiencies were breed specific.
I currently hunt a paint. She is quick, smart, surefooted, a 100% reliable jumper and very cool headed. She makes any days hunting just that much more fun. I didn’t buy her for her color. I bought her for her mind and her way of going. I am happy for all those that ride and enjoy their TB’s (I hope all the OTTB’s find good homes). But please just go out and enjoy your horse.
Sorry, I am crabby being at work today as the weather nixed our hunt (again!)[/QUOTE]
Excuse please, but I thought “paint” was either a TB or a Qth with color? No? If you said you ride a Pinto, that could be anything. But a Paint, to me, brings up an image of a specific type. Sorry you had to miss hunting! Get away from your desk and “gallop” around the break room.
I posted earlier about loving my TB for hunting, but want to add that I am not a breed snob. I agree that any horse that gives you a good ride in the hunt field is a great hunt horse ! I don’t care what breed you ride as long as they are well-behaved (most of the time - they all have their moments). It also depends a lot on what kind of country you are hunting and where in the field you like to ride ? I am a whipper-in so need the speed and endurance. But God bless those packers who can help the newbies learn and be safe. . .
I will have to ask that you please pardon my ignorance :winkgrin:
I truly didn’t give the title much thought as I was led to believe I was on the hunting forum (rather than some other forums) where most posters generally are sincere, considerate and helpful. Most here also make the effort to scan the entire initial post before responding which read something like this…
"Was the TB originally “the” breed to hunt in America? ( I am asking because I don’t know this for fact)
If so, why has that changed? I noticed in the commentary of the thread alot of people stated they hunt TB crosses of some sort. Why has the full TB potentially declined in popularity while riding to hounds?"
rather than simply scrutinize the title and reiterate what everyone else has previously shared.
However, in the future I will do my very best to forward all post titles to your highness at the COTH MicroManagement dept. for your pre- approval stamp.
Thank you for your concern 
I like Cleveland Bay crosses for hunting. I hunt purebred CBs, but I would like them to move off my leg faster especially in open country.
Yet they have been steady as rocks as whipper in horses going through cows, out on their own, weaving through brush, patiently watching far ends of property, etc.
I have one purebred hunting now and an upcoming purebred filly I will break this year, but I think my next hunt horse after that will be a 3/4 CB, 1/4 TB.
Never know.
We have one Anglo Trak in the hunt. My goodness that boy can move fast. We have a feisty very spotty Appaloosa which is always fun to work with.
GMG
Texas.
From The Kimberton Hunt Club website:
What kind of a horse do I need?
Many different breeds are successful hunters. The horse has to be quiet and sensible, stand quietly, not kick other horses or hounds, and make his way across country safely. He must not panic in mud or underbrush. Some horses are more suited to one country than another. For example, in a wide open country, the horse needs to be faster. If it is very rocky and hilly, you need a smaller, more nimble horse.
I would pose the following:
Prior to the influx of European warmblood breeds in the second half of the last century, (fun to say that about the 1970’s), people who were more affluent rode “hunters” or “saddle horses” as opposed to work horses. They had carriage horses and probably ponies for their kiddies. The average Joe might keep a horse or pony that did double duty, riding and driving, the type of horse depending upon the owner’s particular needs.
Those who were not quite as well fixed, say the common farmer whose land the hunt territory crossed, more than likely had work horses, either draft crosses or perhaps of a particular breed. Remember, at this time it was common for the local farmer landowner to take his mare (or cow or sow) to a neighboring stud to be bred. (See the origins of the Upperville Colt and Horse Show).
The early 1900’s saw the rise of the automobile just about eliminating the light saddle horse as well as the draft animals and fox hunting (and horseback riding for pleasure) became pretty much reserved as a pastime for the well to do.
Very few people actually had purebred stock of any breed. In steps the US Army Remount Depot at Front Royal! The entire article is rather interesting.
As is well known. Virginia is the home of the half bred hunter in America. More or less scientific breeding had been going on for a number of years without stimulation by the government, and the hunter type of half bred horse raised in Virginia has always demanded a high price on the market. Due to the fact that the Office of The Quartermaster General directly has had charge of the purchasing of stallions, the Front Royal Remount Depot has been a clearinghouse for stallions used in the furtherance of the breeding scheme. The majority of the best stallions purchased by the Remount Service in the last ten years have been purchased from the eastern tracks and sent to the Front Royal Remount Depot for conditioning and shipment in carload lots to other Depots and to the western zones, where large breeding operations are carried on.
…It has been noted by purchasing officers in Virginia during the last twelve months that the effect of the breeding in Virginia has not only placed a very high type of hunter on the market, but the type of horse available at a reasonable price for the Army is very superior to any that have been formerly purchased. There is now no difficulty in obtaining in Virginia a reasonable number of horses by remount or other thoroughbred sires provided they are bought from the farmer or dealer in small lots.
More on the history of the US Army Remount Service which had depots at various locations around the country standing thoroughbreds, Morgans and Arabians, etc, with the intention of improving local stock which would then be available for purchase as cavalry mounts.
In the mid to late 1700’s up through @ 1970, the thoroughbred was pretty much the only purebred light saddle horse with the overall characteristics that allowed it to fit the particulars for foxhunting.
A field hunter, or a fox hunter, ridden by followers of the hunt, are a prominent feature of many hunts, although others are conducted on foot (and those hunts with a field of horseback-mounted riders may also have foot followers). Horses on hunts can range from specially bred and trained Field hunters to casual hunt attendees riding a wide variety of horse and pony. Draft and Thoroughbred crosses are commonly used as hunters, although purebred Thoroughbreds and horses of many different breeds are also used.
Some hunts with unique territories favor certain traits in field hunters, for example, when hunting coyote in the western U.S., a faster horse with more stamina is required to keep up, as coyotes are faster than foxes and inhabit larger territories. Hunters must be well-mannered, have the athletic ability to clear large obstacles such as wide ditches, tall fences, and rock walls, and have the stamina to keep up with the hounds.
Dependent on terrain, and to accommodate different levels of ability, hunts generally have alternative routes that do not involve jumping. The hunt may be divided into two groups, with one group, the First Field, that takes a more direct but demanding route that involves jumps over obstacles while another group, the Second Field (also called Hilltoppers or Gaters), takes longer but less challenging routes that utilize gates or other types of access on the flat.
Without doing some serious research, (although it would make a fun project and interesting article. I must get out to Horse Country Saddlery and the National Sporting Library to peruse the books on the subject ) I would suppose that the hunt field would have been made up of thoroughbred, thoroughbred crosses, draft crosses, and ponies. Say 70%, leaving 30% of the field to be other breeds and crosses.
Handy dandy, magnolia’s poll on this forum right now has Thoroughbreds, Draft crosses and ponies making up 74% of what people who responded are hunting now.
Considering that in the late 1700’s to mid 1800’s, more people were likely to own crossbreds, being divided among saddle horses, light draft, heavy draft, pony and cob, and chose their animals for their ability to do the job at hand, I would posit that there are actually more pure bred thoroughbreds in the hunt field now as opposed to years ago.
Perhaps one could make an observation that the numbers of thoroughbreds being used in the club where the OP has been hunting have declined over the many years she has been going out but I would hesitate to claim that overall this is the case.
American Heritage’s article “Fox Hunting in America” allows a little insight into the history of the sport in the US and Canada.
…fox hunting today still adheres to strict rules of protocol established two hundred years ago. It caters primarily to the wealthy because usually only they can afford the cost of a good hunter and the means of keeping him, not to mention the expense of properly outfitting themselves. Good hunters are customarily thoroughbreds, though not the smaller, rather slight thoroughbreds found at the racetrack. And unlike the quarter horses that are bred for speed in short stretches and are commonly seen out West, hunting thoroughbreds are often crossed with heavier breeds for endurance and solidity, are taller and more muscular, and are trained to run long distances (most hunts last all day) and jump a variety of fences and ditches.
…In the 173o’s a rising prosperity in Virginia and Maryland led many of the well-to-do to breed fine racehorses as well as hunting horses for sportive riding to hounds. People also began breeding hounds specifically for fox hunting; thus they became foxhounds. Hounds originally fell into four categories, all English strains: the staghound, the southern hound or bloodhound, the fox beagle, and the harrier. As these breeds were crossed and mixed, a good foxhound was eventually developed.
That old saying “horses for courses” is particularly apt.
Back in the day, TBs were what was most readily available, they were in the show ring as well as the hunt field. Now, as warmbloods are more popular in the show ring they are also more available for other careers as well.
Weekend riders are often not well matched on a TB that needs a bit more riding than just on a weekly hunt outing. A draft cross if often a better match for that home.
If your fieldmaster is hunted on a draft cross, you are going to be constantly nagging and holding back a TB in the field. Sometimes it’s better to ride what the majority of the field is riding so you blend in with the traffic more readily.
When it comes to whipping-in, I absolutely want to be on a TB. You say “go” and they go until you say “stop.” You don’t have to say “keep going.”
I hunted 10 years with the Red Rock Hounds in Nevada, we did have open land, fast hunts. I hunted draft crosses, and they were wonderful. My full TB was a goof out there, never could calm down.
I also hunted a young full appy (no color), looked very TB. My MFH only rides full TB, they really are they only horse who will give you what you need in a 4 plus hour hunt that is fast and furious. They are great.
But as many have said, you cannot beat draft crosses or ‘other’ breeds for older riders or those just beginning. The goal is to ride and have a great time. Wish we had a hunt in Idaho!!!
I will have to ask that you please pardon my ignorance
I truly didn’t give the title much thought as I was led to believe I was on the hunting forum (rather than some other forums) where most posters generally are sincere, considerate and helpful. Most here also make the effort to scan the entire initial post before responding which read something like this…
However, in the future I will do my very best to forward all post titles to your highness at the COTH MicroManagement dept. for your pre- approval stamp.
Thank you for your concern
Um, was that necessary?
I thought ETBW did an excellent and very comprehensive job of answering the questions that you asked.
I don’t understand why we should “pardon the ignorance” of someone who chooses to display shoddy manners and ignore the responses of someone more educated than they are when asking a question. I know ETBW is always helpful when someone genuinely wants to learn.
I think it really is that the ‘bone’ is being bred out of today’s TB, which is they are being replaced by crosses and WB’s throughout the sporthorse industry.
Shocking
I thought ETBW last post was lovely and quite helpful, actually, and I read it fully.
I think many on this forum that are familiar with me would say I am more than happy to learn . I also truly appreciate the advice of others whom have 1st hand experience in the huntfield and share their advice/opinions in a genuine manner. Whether or not you agree is your own problem
Excellent point, makes sense.
The bone issue in the modern TB is an interesting point and it’s a conundrum for the racing industry: breed for speed or for long term soundness? How long will a racehorse hold up on smaller, thinner legs (further, how much faster do they go anyway?)? For someone whose goals are hunting, how long will a modern-bred ex racer hold up over solid obstacles and trappy territory at speed? Where is the midpoint between FAST and sound (safe)? When you’re buying an OTTB, is this something that most foxhunters look hard at if the horse comes off the track sound and vets out okay?
Purebred Irish Draught
While everyone has a favorite breed, and I don’t want to step on anyone’s toes, I do want to make a few points about riding a horse other than a thoroughbred. I did have a thoroughbred mare who was my first hunt horse. A little background - she was absolutely NOT my first horse! I used to event in Ireland, and did the A circuit as a junior rider. She was such a difficult horse that it was hard to enjoy my time in the field. Regarding the weight issue - that was certainly NOT a factor in my decision - 5’5" and 112 lbs. I have found true bliss in a 17.0h Registered Irish Draught gelding with a modern build. He is quick, agile, sound, and sooo sane!!! This, in my opinion, is why there has been the shift to “other” breeds for hunting.
It’s funny reading this because my last horse was a draft cross who I evented (not an ounce of TB blood in him- he was belgian/QH) and he was a spitfire. He could NOT canter behind someone and would explode under saddle if he got left behind. We very very successfully evented, however.
Now I have a TB I got off the track two and a half years ago as a 3 year old. A bomb could go off under him and he wouldn’t move. Nothing phases him and he is the most talented creature I have ever ridden. Never gets excited, acts out, etc.
So I do think that part of this change has to do with people thinking that a draft cross or TBx is calmer than the full TB. I think TBs now have “attached” to them that they are “hot”. But honestly, there are lots and lots of TBs out there that are much calmer than many draft crosses. Mine is a baby and I’d still rather put someone on him than my old draft cross.
