Why is the TB being replaced in the hunt field?

[LookinSouth]

I have some questions in response to the “what breed to you hunt” poll/thread. According to the poll the Draft cross is nearly even in popularity with the TB and amazingly the “Other” category is not too far behind. I presume many that picked the other category hunt a TBX of some sort (such as myself).

Was the TB originally “the” breed to hunt in America? ( I am asking because I don’t know this for fact)
If so, why has that changed? I noticed in the commentary of the thread alot of people stated they hunt TB crosses of some sort. Why has the full TB potentially declined in popularity while riding to hounds?

When I see ads for hunt horses they are almost always some sort of cross. Of course that cross often includes TB blood as well.

I am interested to hear the opinions of others whom hunt a cross of some sort and why they prefer a cross.

If you prefer to hunt a full TB please share your opinion as well

[ArtilleryHill]

I hunt a Thoroughbred. They’re fast, smart, athletic, and game–just like our hounds!

[Hunter_s_Rest]

I hunt (and hire out) almost strictly thoroughbreds.
The reason less tb’s in the modern hunt field, in my opinion, is that more people are ‘taking up’ foxhunting later in life (rather than starting in a basket in front of mom, then progressing to a pony on leadline, then a small quiet pony, then a sharp blood pony, then a small horse, then tb’s) and they require a steadier mount.
Plus, there is little ‘wide open’ territory anymore (due to land loss) so tb blood is not quite as requisite to stay with sport in tighter fixtures.

[beanie_boomer]

I prefer a sound, sane, athletic TB over almost anything else, because these horses seem to be the smartest, most sensitive, are usually athletic, and are finally the least likely to tire out on a long day of hunting. I like my Cleveland Bay crosses (with a big dose of TB) because they seem to come pre-programmed with good hunting sense and take to it right away. I ride some draft crosses as resale projects because that’s what lots of riders seem to be able to deal with, and many do take good care of their riders, but those would not be my personal choice.

[SteeleRdr]

A good hunt horse is a good hunt horse, no matter the breed.

Personally I prefer a good TB. Good bone, good stamina, and good mind.

I think part of the reason you see more DraftX’s is as HR said. There are many people out there that require something a bit more “steady.” Not to mention, there are a lot who just don’t have the time or experience to make a TB anymore, in my experience. We have sold a good many TB’s to hunting homes over the years, and many people are shocked that we sell a good hunting horse, but that’s the business we’re in. (not really, but the lady I ride for uses the money from selling to fund the horses, etc; and we don’t sell many a year). I think another reason is the onslaught of PMU foals in the US and them being marketed towards foxhunting as a job they can do. Many of the faster hunts you won’t see as many DraftX’s, but there are definitely some there and that can do it.

I think I’m rambling, but that’s what I get for trying to write this while in class…

[Juneberry]

I’m guessing in a lot of cases the TB crosses were hoping for the agility, smarts and speed of the TB’s but cross with something heavier for an easier keeper.

[Chall]

Anyone think it’s rider weight that pushes them to a larger horse?

[LookinSouth]

@Chall;3783512

Anyone think it’s rider weight that pushes them to a larger horse?

Hmmm… that could definitely be a possibility.

That said, when I think of TBX’s I don’t think strictly of draft crosses. I think of any breed a TB may be crossed with that is likely to give it more bone and perhaps a quieter temperment. Even an appendix or a 3/4 TB 1/4 WB would fit that bill. They may not actually be all that much bigger than a full TB in many cases.

It just seems there are TBX’s of many varieties in the hunt field these days which sparked my curiosity.

FWIW, My own horse is a TBX. He’s a Paint/TB cross (breeding stock). I have owned a full TB as well that would have been spectacular for the hunt field (if he could have only been sound) he actually had a better mind than the TBX in the sense that he was less competitive with other horses, but my TBX gets better and better every time we go out. But then again the full TB wasn’t an American TB, he was a Canadian TB, had a good deal of bone and he was an unsuccessful race horse. He also didn’t have the conformation, smooth gaits and jump that makes the TBX a great mount to hunt.

[Xanthoria]

I think the popularity of the PMU horse or other draft crosses is indeed partly due to heavier riders, and less experienced riders - they need a nice, steady, up to weight horse.

I’ve no idea how the TB became the horse of choice in the US, if it is/was. You have to be pretty on your game to hunt a very fit TB! In the UK and Europe remember the ideal hunting horse is a type - the hunter or cob - not a breed. Very often they are TB crosses, of course.

Lightweight hunter: To carry up to 175#. 16.1hh-16.2hh with about 8 1/2 inches of bone

Middleweight hunter: To carry between 175-196# About 16.3hh and with about 8 3/4 to 9 inches of bone

Heavyweight hunter: To carry over 196#. Need not be more than 17hh but should have 9 or 10 inches of bone.

Cob: Various weight categories. Should not exceed 15.1hh and have at least 8" of bone

http://www.theshowring.co.uk/hunters.php

[Grannie_s_Grey]

I have hunted with both. A TB in my younger years and a TB cross now. I love both.

I believe the change came when the bone was bred out of the TB. Yes you can find TB’s with good bone, but not the bone of there ancesters.

As humans, we believe we can improve on all breeds; dogs, horses etc. We have bred Moon Blindness into our appys while improving the breed; thin weedy legs on TB’s to improve their speed etc. The only thing we haven’t bred out of a TB is their heart. They will run on broken bones because that is what we ask and their heart is telling them.

I have a TB cross with the heart of a TB and the bone of yesteryear. That is why I switched.

[LookinSouth]

@Xanthoria;3783579

I’ve no idea how the TB became the horse of choice in the US, if it is/was. You have to be pretty on your game to hunt a very fit TB! In the UK and Europe remember the ideal hunting horse is a type - the hunter or cob - not a breed. Very often they are TB crosses, of course.

I agree and I wondered the same thing!

[armandh]

[QUOTE=Chall;3783512]
Anyone think it’s rider weight that pushes them to a larger horse?[/QUOTE]

yep; started riding late in life, still inept after all of 3 lessons, now old, collecting SSI, and overweight
I don’t need to mis communicate with a sensitive horse
I am on my second draft/[not TB] cross after a tall QH
http://www.pbase.com/lesliegra/image/103789742 [on the right]
this second one is much more laid back than the one pictured in my profile

[Jleegriffith]

Just an opinion but I think it reflects the overall shift away from Tb’s in all disciplines. I sell a lot of horses (mostly ottb’s) and people are not being taught the necessary skills one must have to ride a more sensitive type of horse. Note I did not say a hot horse b/c I don’t believe tb’s are hot but they are sensitive. You have to have an educated seat, hands and legs. Many lessons programs have steered away from the tb’s hence people might never learned the difference. I see so many trainers who steer students away from tb’s and express a general dislike for the breed. That tends to filter down. The loss of land would be another factor in that you don’t need a horse with as much stamina as when you would go for more than 3hrs and cover more land. I do think it matters where you hunt, what kind of fences you jump and the average amount of time you are out hunting. Again, I am new to fox hunting but have pondered these same sorts of questions.

Tb’s have always been my breed of choice. I always find it a bit odd when people seemed shocked how lovely all my green tb’s are. This season I have hunted three tb’s under the age of 7 in their first year of hunting and each of them has been quiet and straightforward to ride. I suppose that could be because I have grown up following the model that Hunter’s rest spoke of graduating from small pony, smaller hotter horse and then making up my own tb’s and helping with the horses we had coming off the racetrack. I love tb’s because of their ability to take care of themselves and from my first season observations, hunting takes a horse who has brains, self preservation, athletic ability, balance, stamina, scope and heart! I would add in comfort on the top of my list but what is comfortable to me is different for other people. My tb’s are not hot type of tb’s. They don’t want to race, they don’t jig, they don’t need tranq’s and when the going gets tough I would trust them to take care of me.

The bone well that is a whole other issue. I have one Tb that is easily mistaken for a cross b/c he has huge bone with big feet and a head that looks out of place on a tb:lol: I used to find him unattractive but he grew into his body. I have been told his breeding probably has something to do with his build. http://www.pedigreequery.com/the+boppus
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2448513340058815717rDWQic
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2647711980058815717CjaNMp

The other horse I hunt medium boned but still bigger boned than most tb’s with a wide chest, barrel and hind end. http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2715089930058815717SXCYlr

[xeroxchick]

I think it also has to do with all those PMU babies flooding the US in the past decade. Hunting is where they fit in. Breed availability, plus it’s not just people coming to riding late it’s also women who rode as teens, went to college, married, had kids and now have to take less risks and have less nerve (rightfully so). Less are getting OTTBs. That being said, a good TB can be just as sane and steady as a good draft cross or QH. A young draft cross can sure run away with a rider! It’s all in the perception.

[Trakehner]

I think it’s two-fold.

One is weight…but that’s really an excuse.

The main reason? Lousy riders. Way too many riders who never learned the basics, never sat on a horse bareback, never jumped bareback, can’t ride a canter other than in 2-point and are fairly numb twixt the ears. TBs prefer a rider, too many modern riders are passengers.

[Everythingbutwings]

How about the simple reason that many people have one horse and that happens to be the horse they ride for pleasure, take to shows or hunt. I seriously doubt that a person who hunts a couple times a month is going to purchase an additional horse to hunt on.

Those who have ridden for a while and gone through a few horses in their lifetime tend to choose their next mount with an aim towards their preferred activity.

I happen to have Tb’s. Now, I may watch the staff’s mounts and think “wow, that tb/draft cross sure is a good mix for hunting” but I’m not going to go buy one when I have a perfectly useful mount already. Plus, out of my friends who hunt, only two that I know aren’t up on a thoroughbred. One hunts her steady eddie but has a barn full of young tb prospects, the other hunts her Irish Draught/tb cross. That leaves 8 - 10 other friends up on thoroughbreds.

Fully a third of the responses in that poll are thoroughbred. I’d say that’s pretty solid. I can’t see anyone thinking the thoroughbred is being “replaced” in the hunt field. Around here, people hunt what they have, especially when they are new to hunting or occasional participants.

[wateryglen]

agree!

I agree with the other posters. But there have been so many good traits bred out of tb’s that we see a lot of ottb’s from smaller tracks that have bad feet, spindly legs and smaller slab sided frames and are hot. Sad to see what breeders do to a breed for money imho. Combine thier temperments with bad handling as youngsters(physically and mentally) and we have too many that are unsuitable for hunting in our area.

I’m just not up to a “bottomless” horse physically myself I must admit. Can’t hunt for hours & hours & miles & miles so I don’t need a tb. I think the ideal cross for me is a 3/4 something/draft cross altho all mine are halfbreds. The better tb’s are outa my price range too. But I love riding them!

[Bogie]

I think the answer is 1) fashion and 2) a temperament issue. Warmbloods now dominate the hunter, jumper and dressage arenas. If you want to do more than hunt you will lean toward a more versatile horse. Draft crosses are trendy. There is the perception that they are steady eddies and many of them are but I’ve seen some pretty riled up ones too! Many people like to watch the hounds work without having to spend every second concentrating on our horses and most of us have to pack up and go to work (even after a weekday hunt) and we want to be in one piece.

Basically it comes down to the individual horse.

For for 5 years I hunted a Trakehner who was hands down one of the best hunt horses ever. Quiet, brave, stood at the check, jumped anything, went through everything. People always commented on how nice he looked to hunt. The only problem with him was that he wasn’t that quick on his feet and was a bit trippy in certain conditions.

Now I hunt a TB. He was much more of a handful when I started and it meant a ton more concentration and really riding him. He’s turning into a nice horse given a few more seasons under his girth will most likely even learn to stand at the check. Getting him to hunt has taken more of an investment in time and training. On the plus side, he is so light on his feet and catty that I never worry about him tripping. He also never has trouble keeping up with the field!

[GollyGee]

I have standing orders from several fox hunters for TB’s geldings, but they want 16.2+ - 17H handers for tall men.
I have no trouble selling OTTB’s to fox hunters. They love them:)

[CC1]

For most of my hunt career, I hunted an appendix QH. My sister hunted his TB dam.

I now hunt a full TB but he was given to me and he is working out in the huntfield so that is what I ride. Plus, I do like him!!

In his younger years, he would have been a horse for first flight in Greenspring or Elkridge-Harford and he is much better to hunt when he gets to do long gallops. BUT, he has an old fracture and some arthritis, so he has learned to cope in second flight in my conservative hunt. A TB is really not necessary in my hunt. In fact, our first flight tends to boogie and then stop dead which makes my horse a bit crazy. So, just going easily along at a slower pace seems to make him happier.

My hopefully next hunt horse is also TB. He was also given to us as a 2 yr. old to heal from a leg injury. He is sound and laidback so he will go out next season and see how he does!