[QUOTE=hoopoe;8009500]
QUE?[/QUOTE]
Here is the first photo I found: http://www.nj.com/sports/njsports/index.ssf/2012/06/take_that_stephen_colbert_says.html
[QUOTE=Daisyesq;8009249]
All of the reasons that are being offered here for no Levade, could easily be offered for “no piaffe.” And yet, we train piaffe. Even on horses who will never do it well or show GP.[/QUOTE]
Yes, exactly! I’m not the only one who finds this odd.
ALL horses who learn piaffe rear and levade. It’s part of the learning process–just more and way too much.
Z–It seems repetition is necessary to get through!! Because the horses that do perform the levade, are only a special few. And this among horses who are bred especially for these qualities.
I’ve had horses piaffe unasked when ridden and it was delightful. I would really rather not have one levade out on the trails, or in a crowded warm-up.
[QUOTE=Kadenz;8009050]
I could very well be wrong, but I don’t think any of the airs have ever been in any of the FEI tests.
Other movements, like the reinback schaukel, I was told they were taken out of the tests (that one was quite a long time ago, I believe) because they were very difficult to do well. They’ve discussed taking out the halt/reinback from the GP for a while now, I assume for the same reason? Not sure, really.
My point was just that a lot of people do use movements in training that aren’t necessarily in any dressage test. That said, I personally think it’s probably a good thing that lots of people aren’t attempting airs above the ground; that really should only be done by people who know what they’re doing, and who have the correct training and equipment. IMO, of course. :D[/QUOTE]
I think you are absolutely correct - none of the airs have ever been in the GP tests. And also correct to those who have posted - most horses specialize in only a few of the airs. AND the levade is very hard on a horse’s hindquarters - stifles and hocks. Not something you want to encourage, especially in a modern type horse who is not build so compact!
I had a stallion who could levade or pesade, I’m not sure which, and could courbette and Spanish walk. He didn’t come with an owners manual, so when I found the courbette button, it was totally by accident - at a show (in warm up). A little intimidating - my friend who was watching told me to give her some warning next time, she’d love to get it on video. His prior trainer had really enjoyed the high school moves, not so much competition dressage:lol:
Yeah, I’ve had that same thought - WTH is with schaukel at 4th level?
[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8009897]
I think you are absolutely correct - none of the airs have ever been in the GP tests. And also correct to those who have posted - most horses specialize in only a few of the airs. AND the levade is very hard on a horse’s hindquarters - stifles and hocks. Not something you want to encourage, especially in a modern type horse who is not build so compact!
I had a stallion who could levade or pesade, I’m not sure which, and could courbette and Spanish walk. He didn’t come with an owners manual, so when I found the courbette button, it was totally by accident - at a show (in warm up). A little intimidating - my friend who was watching told me to give her some warning next time, she’d love to get it on video. His prior trainer had really enjoyed the high school moves, not so much competition dressage:lol:
Yeah, I’ve had that same thought - WTH is with schaukel at 4th level?[/QUOTE]
I was talking to an upper level rider at my barn about that the other day. Why is it in there? What is the objective at that level with that particular movement?
[QUOTE=sabinomare;8009273]
Didn’t Jan Ebeling do a little levade in a freestyle with Rafalca? That’s the only modern one that comes to mind for me.[/QUOTE]
He couldn’t have, not legally anyway. Both the US and FEI rules list doing any Airs Above the Ground in a test as grounds for elimination. This is the FEI language:
However, if any movements, which are not mentioned at Grand Prix level or below, are deliberately
shown, the competitor will be eliminated. E.g. Airs above the ground, cantering backwards etc.
Note the “deliberate,” so if the horse popped into a bit of levade in starting the piaffe, not a problem, but planning on “Levade at G”? No good.
It’s fine not including them in the standard GP tests. What I don’t get is why they should be grounds for elimination in a Freestyle. Isn’t the whole point to be able to show off your horse’s training and strengths? It shouldn’t necessarily be rewarded above and beyond the requirements, but I don’t see any reason why movements, properly performed, shouldn’t be allowed.
[QUOTE=merrygoround;8009853]
Z–It seems repetition is necessary to get through!! Because the horses that do perform the levade, are only a special few. And this among horses who are bred especially for these qualities.
I’ve had horses piaffe unasked when ridden and it was delightful. I would really rather not have one levade out on the trails, or in a crowded warm-up.[/QUOTE]
No need to be snippy or demeaning, I just don’t understand why the specialized skill and conditioning needed for levade is so much more prohibitive than that of a piaffe.
[QUOTE=merrygoround;8009853]
Z–It seems repetition is necessary to get through!! Because the horses that do perform the levade, are only a special few. And this among horses who are bred especially for these qualities.
I’ve had horses piaffe unasked when ridden and it was delightful. I would really rather not have one levade out on the trails, or in a crowded warm-up.[/QUOTE]
No need to be snippy or demeaning, I just don’t understand why the specialized skill and conditioning needed for levade is so much more prohibitive than that of a piaffe.
[QUOTE=zaparaquah;8010021]
No need to be snippy or demeaning, I just don’t understand why the specialized skill and conditioning needed for levade is so much more prohibitive than that of a piaffe.[/QUOTE]
I, for one, don’t think it is the specialized skill (on the horse’s part) or the conditioning that make levade less universal than piaffe, or make levade dressage-test prohibitive as an example of highest-level training.
It’s the dynamic of the movement itself that makes it so.
If a GP horse offers an unasked-for piaffe under a less skilled rider, it’s a teaching moment but it’s not an inherently dangerous one. Levade is essentially rearing. Rearing under a less skilled rider can be dangerous.
It’s a specialized skill on the rider’s part. You can argue that, by the time a horse reaches GP, the rider ought to be able to sit and balance during a rear.
I was just at a clinic yesterday, when a rider who’s shown to First Level was riding her brand-new GP Schoolmaster. The clinician asked her to take a half circle at C, tracking right in canter, and to come ahead on centerline then half pass right to E. The horse offered four clean one-tempis.
Incorrect for what the instructor and rider were seeking. The horse didn’t go sideways, not even a little bit. But, not scary. And very nice-- we all who were watching exchanged smiles and had to stop ourselves from applauding.
Ok Silver, that does make sense. I can definitely see the risk in having schoolmasters everywhere offering levade/ rear to lower level riders.
[QUOTE=DoubleTwistedWire;8009931]
It’s fine not including them in the standard GP tests. What I don’t get is why they should be grounds for elimination in a Freestyle. Isn’t the whole point to be able to show off your horse’s training and strengths? It shouldn’t necessarily be rewarded above and beyond the requirements, but I don’t see any reason why movements, properly performed, shouldn’t be allowed.[/QUOTE]
Ah, it probably was accidental. To me it seemed like a bit of a cheeky levade, but I think Rafalca wanted to show it off rather than Jan. :lol:
And I agree with your final paragraph as well.
[QUOTE=Mondo;8009141]
Just as you NEVER perform reinback on the centerline (may cause your horse to volunteer a rein back in your initial or final halt), you wouldn’t want a horse offering a levade when he was supposed to be in piaffe. [/QUOTE]
No reason at all not to ask a horse to rein back on the center line. Or any other line. If the horse is on the rider’s aids, this should not be a problem and the distinction between rein back and halt and immobility should be quite clear.
Same for piaffe and levade: one requires continuous forward thinking in the horse and the other requires on the spot thinking in the horse with the highest possible degree of collection. Make the aids clear to the horse and there is no difficulty in having the horse perform one or the other as wanted.
Levade is very difficult on the hind legs of horses. Piaffe and passage is, too. So is the canter pirouette. So are the transitions from piaffe to passage and out, and passage to canter, and collected to extended canter.
Spanish stallions are built for the collected movements. Yet few of them really get to the top of the Spanish School. They don’t tend to do extended movements very well, and extended movements are asked for in the GP tests.
How many joint-stressing movements do you want to add to the GP? Exactly what kind of horse is capable of excelling at levade and extended gaits? What do you think their hocks and stifles are made of, steel?
Come on J-Lu! From what we can read (pun intended) here, GP tests are quite easy.
After the rolkur, the fake piaffe-passage, the waterskiing position, the TWH front legs, the unparallel extended trot, the poll height, the bad walk, the bad halt, the cruelty of the nosebands/spurs/double bridle/whip debates, AND the fact that judges are either blind, corrupted or wrong anyway…
ETA: Cheaters using deep saddles with huge blocks!
Maybe some CotHers need something new to add in their “to bash” list so here is the levade! Or, they think the SRS would then compete and beat the rest of those shitty riders?
[QUOTE=alibi_18;8011201]
Come on J-Lu! From what we can read (pun intended) here, GP tests are quite easy.
After the rolkur, the fake piaffe-passage, the waterskiing position, the TWH front legs, the unparallel extended trot, the poll height, the bad walk, the bad halt, the cruelty of the nosebands/spurs/double bridle/whip debates, AND the fact that judges are either blind, corrupted or wrong anyway…
ETA: Cheaters using deep saddles with huge blocks!
Maybe some CotHers need something new to add in their “to bash” list so here is the levade! Or, they think the SRS would then compete and beat the rest of those shitty riders?[/QUOTE]
You forgot impurity of the canter in the pirouette! Let’s make the list complete:D
The only thing missing from the grand prix test is a final bow:
http://ebonyparkstud.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Tamb-bow-small.png
sigh Sometimes the resistance to honest inquiry in this forum worries me. Thanks for all your thoughtful responses though! It’s been an interesting discussion.
Are you seriously worried? What resistance are you referring to? You received a stream of honest responses offering numerous logical explanations for not including levade in the GP test. Then when you still did not seem satisfied with the responses (I wonder why the answers were not acceptable to you?) a few people became a little cheeky and had a little fun. What’s the big deal? People are still allowed some fun. 
I beg your pardon? This is dressaaaage. “Zere eez no fun in ze dressage!”
