Why no levade in modern dressage?

[zaparaquah]

I know there has been some discussion of this here in previous years, but I’m still unclear on it, so I thought I’d pose the question again: why don’t you see any above airs (not even the levade, which proves correct performance of the piaffe?) practiced in modern dressage? I understand some of the movements can be strenuous and hard to teach, but can’t the same be said of the current GP movements? One common argument I hear is that only a small subsection of small-bodied, heavy-boned, baroque-type horses can do this, but my question is… If the modern warmbloods seen in GP dressage competition aren’t physically capable of a levade, what makes us think they can do a correct piaffe? It seems to me like having levade as a common exercise might guard against the faux-piaffe, and the breeding of horses who have big showy extensions but are unable to collect and engage the hocks correctly.

Admittedly I’m a total dressage ammy, and I may have no idea what I’m talking about. But I think it’s still a valid question. Why isn’t the levade a regular part of the schooling of a high-level dressage horse?

Thanks in advance for your insights!

[beowulf]

because it is very, very hard to do - the airs above the ground movements (including capriolle, levade, etc) require an incredible amount of strength & training. it is also, you know, teaching your horse to rear – not something you want to encourage the general populace to do…

much harder to perform than a piaffe, IMHO.

[RedmondDressage]

Because modern dressage is terrible and no one knows what the hell they’re doing anymore. :winkgrin:

[alibi_18]

Even in the ‘‘Schools of Haute-École’’ only a few selected horses are trained to perform 1 or maybe 2 airs above the ground.

People are already complaining about all the harsh cruel treatments horses have to endure for dressage competitions/training. You think that adding even more difficult movements would be good for?!?

And you could ‘‘faux-piaffe’’ and ‘‘faux-levade’’ as well anyway… See our last evicted Cother NP for more info on the subject.

[zaparaquah]

You have a point about the faux-levade, alibi. However, I wasn’t asking about all of the above-airs, just the levade, which (although obviously difficult) seems to be recognized as one of the less strenuous above airs, and one which most classical trainers (read: the very few I’ve seen from varied sources, so correct me if this is wrong) seem to teach and school in conjunction with the piaffe, so if a horse can’t levade, how can he piaffe?

[emipou]

Argh. There was a really good article about that that I saw recently. I didn’t read through the entire article but the article was stating that many of those levade moves are considered to be “circus tricks”, great for pleasing the audience but not really useful in more serious training as seen in the modern dressage arena.

[dotneko]

I would have loved to see levade in the GP test. Fabian levaded ?? for two years straight while learning piaffe. It was like riding an escalator. He would sit and slowly raise his forehand with lovely straight forearms parallel to the ground and cannons perpendicular. Never felt unsafe since he was so balanced. His levade far surpassed his piaffe.

[alibi_18]

[QUOTE=zaparaquah;8008916]
You have a point about the faux-levade, alibi. However, I wasn’t asking about all of the above-airs, just the levade, which (although obviously difficult) seems to be recognized as one of the less strenuous above airs, and one which most classical trainers (read: the very few I’ve seen from varied sources, so correct me if this is wrong) seem to teach and school in conjunction with the piaffe, so if a horse can’t levade, how can he piaffe?[/QUOTE]

Who said they can’t do levade? Most horses will go up during their learning of the piaffe…it is never reprimanded (like when a horse offers a change during counter canter) but surely not encouraged/stimulated.

[Kadenz]

My horse, who was trained to FEI by a German master, was trained to levade out of the piaffe.

He would sometimes offer it during piaffe when I was first learning and not aiding 100% correctly, but he didn’t ever use it as an evasion. And he wasn’t a rearer undersaddle ever, so it clearly didn’t teach or encourage him to rear either. My trainer, who was trained by the German mentioned above, and is considerably younger than most of the people on this board, uses levade with certain horses (usually in-hand) still.

Similarly, just because the rein-back schaukel isn’t in the tests anymore, doesn’t mean nobody uses it as a training tool at home. They do!

Now, if you want to discuss why these movements were taken out of the tests, well I believe that’s a somewhat different answer.

[zaparaquah]

[QUOTE=Kadenz;8008983]

Now, if you want to discuss why these movements were taken out of the tests, well I believe that’s a somewhat different answer.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the input Kadenz! I am curious why they aren’t in the tests though. Are they just too difficult and dangerous if done wrong?

[Kadenz]

[QUOTE=zaparaquah;8009026]
Thanks for the input Kadenz! I am curious why they aren’t in the tests though. Are they just too difficult and dangerous if done wrong?[/QUOTE]

I could very well be wrong, but I don’t think any of the airs have ever been in any of the FEI tests.

Other movements, like the reinback schaukel, I was told they were taken out of the tests (that one was quite a long time ago, I believe) because they were very difficult to do well. They’ve discussed taking out the halt/reinback from the GP for a while now, I assume for the same reason? Not sure, really.

My point was just that a lot of people do use movements in training that aren’t necessarily in any dressage test. That said, I personally think it’s probably a good thing that lots of people aren’t attempting airs above the ground; that really should only be done by people who know what they’re doing, and who have the correct training and equipment. IMO, of course.

[dressurpferd01]

And yet the schaukel, a movement formerly found in the GP, is now in 4th level! More proof to me that the US test writers are smoking some REALLY good stuff.

[Mondo]

“My horse, who was trained to FEI by a German master, was trained to levade out of the piaffe.” Thank you!

This is precisely why it isn’t used in competition, among other reasons. Just as you NEVER perform reinback on the centerline (may cause your horse to volunteer a rein back in your initial or final halt), you wouldn’t want a horse offering a levade when he was supposed to be in piaffe. Also, as was stated above, it is a VERY difficult movement and most horses, regardless of how talented, are hard pressed to perform it well, if at all. The Lippizaner Stallions of the SRS are short-coupled, and very powerful behind. Even so, not all of them are trained or ever asked to perform the levade.

I had a horse once that had been trained to rear (not levade). OMG was that guy a PITA when you put your leg in just the right place. Another time, I had a stallion I was warming up at a show. This was early in my career and I was probably not as clear with my aids as I could have been. He offered the most incredible levade, and held it for quite some time. I sat and enjoyed the moment and did not chastise him because I knew it was my error. Just imagine the chaos if all the FEI trainers out there had to suddenly add levade to their repertoire. One shudders at the thought. Don’t we have enough to worry about getting rid of rollkur and “natural horsemanship”?

[Daisyesq]

All of the reasons that are being offered here for no Levade, could easily be offered for “no piaffe.” And yet, we train piaffe. Even on horses who will never do it well or show GP.

[sabinomare]

Didn’t Jan Ebeling do a little levade in a freestyle with Rafalca? That’s the only modern one that comes to mind for me.

[Tnavas]

It’s an awesome feeling, I had a young horse that would ‘levade’ when excited, she just used to sit down, front end come up and balance there effortlessly. Not a wobble in sight.

[joiedevie99]

[QUOTE=sabinomare;8009273]
Didn’t Jan Ebeling do a little levade in a freestyle with Rafalca? That’s the only modern one that comes to mind for me.[/QUOTE]

I could be wrong but I don’t think that was intentional. Rafalca did a lot of levades during the foam-finger season.

[Cindyg]

This is a secret dream of mine, to teach my fat, yellow, heavy-on-the-forehand pony to do a proper Levade in hand some day.

[hoopoe]

as mentioned , even within the SRS the horses who do “airs” are specialists. Not all of them do it.

I do not believe airs were ever in the “FEI” tests, though a jump was included in the early Olympic tests.

[hoopoe]

during the foam-finger season.

QUE?