My horse pretty much accepted the spade right away. Working the cricket and salivating that any dressage rider would be envious of.
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You are the ignorant one. I suggest you Google vaquero and bridle horse. Educate yourself.
OK, lower jaw = chin to me but whatever.
Exponentially?? I’m an applied mathematician and just short a minor in physics so I’m keen to hear your rationale on that.
I’ll agree that the curb chain/strap does put pressure on the chin/jaw/whatever. It’s not really part of the mechanism that stops the bit from rotating too far forward, I’m thinking that the bridle cheek piece and the shank are what really accomplish that which is a good thing.
The bit puts pressure on the bars of the horse’s mouth, the bit mouthpiece puts pressure on the roof of the horse’s mouth, and the curb puts pressure on the horse’s chin/jaw/whatever. Are you saying the “pinch point” is between the bars and chin/jaw/whatever?
It’s amazing these lovely creatures put up with any of us!!
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I’m sorry if I missed it up thread, but just curious - why did you decide to use/try the spade bit?
Also, depending on how the horse is working the cricket/bit, it is not always a sign of the horse accepting the bit, it can be a sign of contact avoidance.
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This, very much so. Believe me, if your horse’s mouth is dripping foam at a Buck Branaman clinic, you are in big, BIG trouble. In the old days when it was the thing in dressage, we’d just load them up on watermelon and pears.
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We lived in the Shenandoah Valley when my girls were little. My 14yo actually started her riding career with a western & gaited horse trainer. We obviously never went to anything beyond little local shows/county fair level stuff. Nevertheless, with the exception of the trail obstacle class, it was every bit as formal with all the same real or perceived political pressures as any local schooling hunters show I’ve attended here in Zones 2 & 3. All the same worry to spend $ to look “correct” .
Probably more so, tbh. Because, as Scribbler noted way upthread, there’s less uniformity. There was the dreaded “helmet or cowboy hat” conundrum; complete with the worry that some judges might mark down riders in helmets, coordinating outfits to tack, and all of it to the color of the horse. Most riders (even the wee ones) seemed to have more than one set of show tack & outfit. Nice, traditional western attire is expensive. Even plain, well-made Corral boots are $300+. But you had people rolling up to the County fair with $12,000 Harris show saddles & matching rigging.
Granted, this was the Shenandoah Valley area of Virginia where maybe 50-60% of the riding population rides western. So not exactly Wyoming or anything. Maybe people here are over-compensating for that by being stricter in their attire & general standards? At any rate, as an English rider of 35+ years, I required the same crash course education on what to buy and how to prepare kiddo for a western show as a western rider would an English show. Any “town-versus-gown” notions I had of the western rider as some sort of romantic underdog figure or anti-establishment maverick went right out the window in the process. And I certainly had such notions. Western would has the same protocols & standards, official or unofficial, as English world.
All this to say that I reckon people are people, regardless of the riding style & subdiscipline in question. And I’m a big proponent of riding in as many ways as one can. A good rider is a good rider. You pick and choose from among the arrows in your quiver what will work for you to ride the horse that shows up.
Eta: @atlatl, it really is! Someone on Shite Eventers said that her horse told an animal communicator that he wanted her to stop trying to count strides & see distances & just let him handle it, thank you very much. 
Who knows what they really think of us sometimes!
Speaking off Harris saddles:
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I’m working with someone experienced with them who owns one. I wanted to see what her reaction to it was. Something to aspire to. She softly mouthed the cricket but not in a nervous or anxious way. Kind of like someone putting their horse in a double just to try for fun and aspiring to the day they earn the right to use it. Both are tools of refinement.
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<- there are not enough of those on the planet to reply to that comment!
Leverage isn’t a matter of choice. It’s a matter of physics. Your argument is like saying that a teeter totter doesn’t have a fulcrum because no children are allowed to play on it.
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It is amazing that they put up with us sitting on their backs when they are meant to carry weight below their spine not above it.
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I think there’s a video of a similar switcheroo, though I think the Western horse is a reiner. IMO, the cowboy gave the softer, more effective ride to the GP horse. The reiner, on the other hand, also answered every button pushed and his movements revealed just how much the dressage rider a bit too quick and too “loud” with his aids or corrections.
Both were pros and fine riders in their respective disciplines. But the comparison also revealed some differences in how we expect a horse to submit his mind and body to us in different disciplines. I’m originally from Hunter World, and one of the things that’s hard for me to get used to in dressage is how “close” or “intervening” our ride is. There aren’t too many moments when we are leaving the horse alone for more than a step, purposely, to give him a brief moment to be on his own or to express himself or just not have an order to fulfill.
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All you people fighting about physics: There are entire books on Western bits and bitting. I’m sure one of those will definitively answer your question. They have diagrams about how the different parts of the bit are labeled and how their relative lengths or sizes make the bit work.
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Insomuch as leverage means force displaced from a fulcrum, then yeah anything with shanks is a leverage bit. Regardless of what a blog post about vacquero tradition may say.
There may be a different definition of leverage bits that I’m not privy to, but from a pure engineering standpoint, well. See above.
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They CAN be used as a leverage bit. They are designed to be a signal bit.
Oh look, here they are being used incorrectly as leverage bits:
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For those of you who have ventured down the spade bit/vaquero rabbit hole with me. A great explanation about 15 minutes long.
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Everything in inexperienced hands is dangerous! FEI doesn’t allow children below 14y of age to jump in hackamore. Furthermore, in Germany you’re only allowed to use one when your horse reaches class M** aka 135cm and hackamores are not allowed in dressage at all. Perhaps there’s a real reason and if you think that’s wrong, you’re welcome to go tell them to get real 
P. S I ride in kk ultra so don’t worry about my hands
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Absolutely. And wire ties can be used as handcuffs ( sorry, police family) but that is not what they are made for.
If y’all try to tell me cats aren’t foot warmers I’m gonna lose it.
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Hey mine might look like foot warmers but they are lap warmers😺
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ElVaquero is not a very good communicator. What he should have said is:
Mechanically speaking, the spade bit is a leverage bit. However, it was not created to be used, nor should it be used, in a way that creates leveraged force. Instead, it should be used, with only the very lightest touch, as a device that provides a signal to the horse. If you find yourself resorting to anything beyond the most subtle of rein movements, either you, or your horse, or both of you, are not sufficiently well trained to use a spade bit.
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