I find it easier to just copy/paste the link.
See the edited post (sorry! )
Yes, I am pretty petite! Used to be 5’3" but I’m now 5’2" - she was definitely size appropriate.
My present mare, a WB who I bred out of my 15’3" Prelim mare (who I got at the age of 5 to replace my beloved Felix) is around the same size, but longer in the body and neck– still a good fit for me size-wise, and I bred to a smaller stallion for that reason.
(This is my homebred)
Look back in that pedigree and see Sea Bird 1962 FR. Another mid century French influencer.
Far as Mahmoud influencing the Sell Francais and others? No idea but when researching my Hunters sire, April Axe, I dug up an ad for him at stud in France after he went over there circa early 90s and there was a list of books he was approved for…in small print French.
Would imagine Mahmoud very likely is found in European Sporthorses, why wouldn’t they use his line back in the 60s and 70s if it was available and advertised? All the ones I found pictures of look alike, good bodied, refined head and neck, not too tall. And grey, of course. (kind of like the smaller Tapits of today).
Interesting research project for somebody interested in the TB side of WBs.
ETA, went down the rabbit hole and looked at Tapit, Damside goes to Mahmoud 6 and 7 generations back too far for much but maybe not an accident type wise. Whoever was looking for info on Grey Dawn seems to have uncovered some gems and good performing horses. Looks like Mahmoud was Northern Dancers grandpa on the damside too.
Sorry folks - i’m going to go back and edit the post with my 1967 mare – obviously she is not R U Sure!! Give me a second – she definitely has some notable older sires in her pedigree.
EDITS DONE (I feel like a complete idiot – posting three horses with the same pedigree, please find it in your heart to forgive me! )
That would probably have been easier - was doing everything from my phone so just took a pic of them.
This was the colt (gelding) my 1967 mare produced - unfortunately when she was bred back, she slipped two subsequent foals - both at 7 months’ gestation. In retrospect, it was probably placentitis. He also had an absolutely sterling temperament (though was obviously never on the track since he was my homebred.) I think many TBs are just wonderful horses, and are definitely an untapped resource in this day and age.
He was also a lovely flat kneed mover and had a great front end O/F. His owner after me had modest goals and some fear issues; he had more talent than she ever utilized but she treated him like gold, and he took great care of her She did lower level eventing and some local hunter shows with him as well as lower level dressage - trail rode him, hunted him a couple of times, he was an all arounder. Also 15’2" like his dam.
Pics of him with her, and one with her two-year-old daughter on him – he was 22 at the time. He was a saint!
Hopefully, I got the right pedigree this time – some real old-times sires in it! He was a 1978.
I say he is absolutely perfect for the contingency of “eventers” like me whole have no aspirations beyond Novice and want to go around events like we are riding a hunter course
My halfbred (Conn x TB) has Grey Dawn as her great grandsire
Princequillo shows the IS (Intermediate and Classic) designation. I wonder if there are any sires in the last 20 to 30 years to get that distinction. Maybe it takes a really long time to see that type of result. Now I want to pour through TB pedigrees looking for an S (Solid - stamina) or a P (Professional - extreme stamina).
That’s really interesting! My 1967 mare was from that line – I think that was her grandsire? Just checked and yup.
I don’t think we run them far enough now to test that kind of distinction to award it?
In any case, the thread made me curious enough to go find a list.
http://i.bloodhorse.com/pdfs/ChefdeRace%20Alpha%20List_updated%20Oct2019.pdf
This is interesting stuff.
I didn’t know if steeplechases or timber races would be included rather than just flat.
Wow, that list is pretty darned short given the age of some of the horses still on it. I mean, off the top if my head Man O’ War was foaled in 1917? I wonder what criteria are used to get on the list.
I think Awesome Again was born in 1994, I wonder if there are any newer than him. My fabulous mare has six of those stallions in her pedigree.
I didn’t look up all the most recent additions from 2019, but one (Dubawi) was born in 2002.
I found an article about the 2019 update where the current manager of the official chefs-de-race list noted that there are often efforts to get new stallions added quickly but because the determination is based on the performance of the stallion’s progeny, there needs to be enough time to study the performance results of the breeding line.
I have a grandson of Danzig (topside) and Roberto (damside.) He was a mile and a quarter grass horse. He is tough as nails. Sadly, he’s 30 with EOTRH and retired – but he was great at everything but being a “take all the jokes” hunter type (which is what I wanted to do at the time.) He would have made a wonderful eventer, I think.
I also have a Roberto grandson and absolutely love the line. Fabulous sport horse prospects, mine is very much a hunter. He’s 16.3 and 1300 lbs and I’ve actually had people argue with me when I tell them he’s a tb
@Angel_Undercover I think many people have ridden or, given the way papers get “lost”, even owned a TB and never realised it. I’ve met many good ones working in riding schools…