Definitely more than would be happy to find out, I think.
FB feeds me sale ads all the time. I see a LOT of WBs - with known WBs parentage and papers - that look exactly like nice TBs to me. This is not a bad thing, just a thought that runs through my head when I see video. There are some freaks of nature out there, but not for the “low-mid fives” market, even dead green.
Has there been any effort to research what TB lines have influenced WBs? Especially SF and others with more blood and lighter type? Make a nice project for somebody with time and access to extended (6 generation or more) pedigrees in the studbooks.
Closer to home, who on the chef list influenced Appendix QHs most?
@findeight look at any of the European WB for both historic and modern stallions and find plenty of TB. The Hanover State Stud at Celle (founded in 1735 by the Elector of Hanover, aka King George II of Britain) has always used them. By 1840 a third of the stallions at Celle were TB and the rest were half or quarter bred. In the mid-19th century the aim was to produce a large, powerful horse with substance, suitable as both a coach and army horse. English coaching breeds such as Cleveland Bay, Yorkshire Greys and Norfolk Trotters came to used on the local mares. By the early 20th century breeders were seeking something less coarse so turned once again to TB stallions. The change of use from work to sport horse started between the two world wars and rapidly intensified after WW2. These horses needed to be more “modern”. Between 1945-1950 the proportion of TB had fallen to 1.8% of the total population (which had overall fallen to small numbers). By 1965, out of 160 stallions at Celle 6.9% were TB. In 1975 this was 11% with 23 out of 208 state stallions being TB. The 1980s was the period when Hanovarians really began to emerge as a major force in sport, helped by great marketing, the Verdun auctions, highly competent riders and production and the evident high performance results. Today, according to Wikipedia, there are 140 stallions standing at Celle of which 10 are TB.
Notable 20th/21st century sires not too far back in modern Hanovarians pedigrees include Der Lowe xx, Pik As xx, Black Sky xx, Laurie’s Crusader xx, Prince Thatch xx.
But then I get lost because all the modern European WB breeding had become so interconnected with multiple approvals etc. Furioso xx in Selle Francais, Cottage Son xx in Holsteiner, Julio Mariner in KWPN.
Seek and you shall certainly find!
Three Bars isn’t on the chef list.
Oh what a lovely horse! <3
Was specifically speaking of TBs on the Chef de Race list based on achievements of their progeny over generations.
And thank you C Boylen for posting that link. Fascinating.
It’s really fun to go down a rabbit hole with the WBs, and see where they emerged from, too, and how some of the lines go back many generations, and some get new blood interjected in more recently. Obviously the TBs are super important, but there are so many other things mixed in. It’s fascinating.
I am supposed to be grading so instead I was just spending some time with the pedigrees for my two guys- neither has any TB until several generations back, but there is a lot going on when you get there and then dig farther! Both have a TON of Selle Francais, so then they go back to French Trotter and there are the half-bred SF, and then the TBs start to show up.
My older boy has Ladykiller and Chanteur on bottom several generations back, and a whole slew of “halfbred” on top- half TB, half something else. One of those is Debuche- he was built like a mack truck, much like my guy, and had Anglo-Norman on top. It’s very cool. https://beta.allbreedpedigree.com/ct-quantum-Cr8VFLOo/pedigree
For my little guy one has to go back a ways to find the TBs, like Furioso, but again, this is so cool to dig through. Some more Anglo Normans (he’s got Jus de Pomme!), Anglo Arabs, etc. It’s also fun when there are pictures and you can try to see traits, or even find videos of close relations. https://beta.allbreedpedigree.com/tatabra-goliat-U7iDf5Ss/pedigree
~a retired teacher
There is a pretty red TB mare at Bowie, La Luna Rouge if the tattoo is correct.
For those of you who have not talked yourself out of a TB, there is a nice one you can canter in a halter.
Please someone get her, I don’t need Mr. Kooky mad at me for buying myself a Christmas present that eats hay.
She’s got Blushing Groom on top.
I want to canter her everywhere in a halter and breed her to Saketini.
There, I said it. Now, where the hell is Santa?!
I have been sooooo good this year, I haven’t even bought one pony.
As I was scrolling in a hurry, I thought it said you wanted to canter her in a halter while wearing a bikini. Which is a perfectly valid choice, in my opinion. Lol.
I would canter that mare along the beach in a bikini whilst drinking a martini on the way to see Saketini!
If anyone is seriously interested in picking her up, PM me. I would be down to send a dribble to get her under someone’s Christmas tree. 
She has such a lovely eye. I wonder if it’s worth reaching out to her past connections - someone cared for her enough to update PQ with a nice image of her.
For what it is worth, she has a good pedigree topside for eventing. For a while, some breeders looking for TB blood wanted their hands on a Ahonoora or Leroidesanimaux mare. I really like her sire.
Paging @EventerAJ because I know she might have some eventing broodmare connections (and obviously, also owns the very handsome Mr. Hollywood).
She’s had four foals, and the breeder of her 2022 baby is RA Rowe Farms in Ohio.
I just checked the pedigree of my (late) TB gelding, I Spy (JC name Spy Illusion)
https://www.pedigreequery.com/spy+illusion
Two of his great grandsires, Princequillo and My Babu, are chef de race, as are 7 of his eight grear great grandsires:
Prince Rose
Bold Ruler
Royal Charger
Spy Song
Djebel
Heliopolis
Nasrullah
Only Menow isn’t on the list (But he was no slouch. He was 3rd in both the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness, beat War Admiral in the Mass. Handicap by 9 lengths, and sired 32 stakes winners, including Tom Fool, who IS on the Chef de Race list.)
But Spy never raced, and was one of the laziest, most laid back horses I have ridden. If he was worried about something he would just plant his feet and refuse to move (ulike his full sister, whose preferred response was to either attack or run).
That little girl has a perfect elbow to bit connection. 
I remember riding bareback on chilly days, nothing better.
She is all grown up now, and Spy died in 2018 at age 36.
Wow. It sounds like he had a very long and happy life!
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
