I know of a local trainer that has all of her students post to the inside diagonal instead of going up with the outside leg. I would love to know why and what does it do for the horse. I am sure there is a reason for it. I will be asking my GP trainer but will not get to see him for a couple of weeks.
It is traditional in Eastern Europe- particularly Poland and Russia.
For a discussion of the reasons, get a copy of dāRomaszkanās āFundamentals of Ridingā
I was always taught to post on the outside diagonal to allow the inside hind leg to come farther forwards so that I was not blocking it. I think it also helps me to apply my leg aids as I am rising which is the prime moment to apply aids as this is the moment to influence anything. I have no idea why you would post opposite this. Would love to hear the āwhysā on this one!
2 Likes
Reminds me of the question of why some cars have the gas cap on the āwrongā sideā¦
Itās been a while but IIRC, to strengthen both hind legs equally.
Also good when doing trot leg yield exercisesā¦but canāt remember reason why, maybe to allow hind leg cross over? Either way, makes for good leg yield.
4 Likes
Posting when the outside front and inside hind leaves the ground is useful for many reasons. When traveling on a circle, the horse steps under and carries more weight on the inside hind. Posting as it moves forward can āfreeā the back from weight, and sittling when it is in the weight-bearing phase allows you to influence the leg with your seat and legs better.
The best way to influence both hind legs is to change direction often.
People post on the āoppositeā leg when leg yielding from the rail inward or doing similar lateral movements. Here, you are influencing the outside leg, not the inside leg.
I have no idea why someone owould routinely have their students post on the opposite diagonal.
J.
2 Likes
For the sake of discussion and to fly in the face of convention, is it not the case that when rising with the inside hind the rider is actually weighting that leg? Is there not more weight, as witnessed by the descending heel of the rider, in the stirrup when one rises? And is it not easier to give a leg aid when seated rather than on the rise?
4 Likes
I am working on the canter with my green horse. Posting to the inside diagonal before asking for the canter is a neat trick that a recent clinician showed me. It works.
Hereās an old thread that talks more about diagonals.
http://70.32.98.90/forum/showthread.php?t=150704
After reading that thread I conclude that the instructor in the OP is not helping her students by telling them when to use the inside and outside diagonals - that each has a purpose.
1 Like
Posting with the opposite diagonal helps with straightness. Interesting thing to try: collect slightly on ātrueā diagonal/extend on slightly on āwrong onā, it does help.
I am not going to type in all of dāRomaszkanās section on the subject, but here are a couple of sentences.
When posting on the outside diagonalā¦ the riderā¦overburdens the inside hind legā¦[this causes the horse to] place this inside leg less far underneath its bodyā¦
ā¦
From the point of view of the riderās aidsā¦the rider can drive with his legs much better when sitting in the saddleā¦ when the hind leg to be drivenā¦ is movingā¦ The rider must be sitting in the saddle at the moment when [the inside hind] reaches forward.
2 Likes
[QUOTE=alicen;5235215]
For the sake of discussion and to fly in the face of convention, is it not the case that when rising with the inside hind the rider is actually weighting that leg? Is there not more weight, as witnessed by the descending heel of the rider, in the stirrup when one rises? And is it not easier to give a leg aid when seated rather than on the rise?[/QUOTE]
No, the rider does not gain and lose weight depending on what part of the post they are in. (I have also never understood why people think you will be ālighterā on a horseās back in two point position.) Otherwise I could lose a couple pounds simply by keeping my heel up.
That said, yes, it is easier to give a leg aid when seated.
8 Likes
[QUOTE=Janet;5235312]
I am not going to type in all of dāRomaszkanās section on the subject, but here are a couple of sentences.[/QUOTE]
The quote you posted (which didnāt cross over into mine, and I donāt feel like reposting 
), is absolutely correct. The time you see it have the most influence is on the young horses. Itās much better for them (especially on circles) to post on what we normally consider the incorrect diagonal.
I was taught the ācorrectā and later learned the use of the āincorrectā and now use both as needed. Itās funny how some instructors will obsess on this even with upper level riders. At that point in the horse and riderās career, it really becomes a moot point. Especially since they usually only use it for warm up and relaxation and sit the rest of the time.
2 Likes
[QUOTE=meupatdoes;5235331]
No, the rider does not gain and lose weight depending on what part of the post they are in. (I have also never understood why people think you will be ālighterā on a horseās back in two point position.) Otherwise I could lose a couple pounds simply by keeping my heel up.
That said, yes, it is easier to give a leg aid when seated.[/QUOTE]
If we take the above quoted text of dāRomaszkan (ie. the potential to overburden the inside leg) to be true, then it is not that the rider physically loses weight in certain positions but that the distribution of their weight affects the horse accordingly. The rider atop a horse is in motion too thus their motion and where their weight temporarily rests in movement will be felt and thus affect the horse, particularly the young horse with yet insufficient working muscle.
Thus the same as posting on a specific diagonal will affect a horseās (particularly a young horseās) position and movement, so will also the riderās position on a horseās back. IME two point over a young horseās back in the canter can mean all the difference in collection, roundness, and balance initially as they develop balance, coordination, and muscle.
Interesting topic!!!
1 Like
I am wondering why there would be an inside or outside diagonal. In my way of thinking the mere fact that trot is a diagonal two-beat pretty much rules out there being an inside or outside diagonal as there always are one inside and one outside leg moving forward at the same time so one could argue you either post on the inside or outside hindleg but not the inside or outside diagonal. Make sense?
The biggest concern in the lower levels is to engage the inside hindleg to communicate with the outside rein thus making the horse to move straight on the curve (straight=bent in the same direction as the line youāre on to exactly the same degree, neither falling over the inside shoulder nor sliding away with the hindend to the outside).
Iād say posting on the āotherā hindleg only makes sense further along in training when the horse has learned to keep his equilibrium on the curved line by engageing the inside hindleg more to step underneath. The outside leg will always follow passively as it has the farther way on the curve anyways.
Once you work more on collection (as in ability to carry with both hindlegs as opposed to ability to push forward) posting on the different hindleg is a good tool to test and ensure the horseās balance and to feel for potential unevenness sneaking in. If the horse is bilaterally supple and mobile it should have no problem to be ridden posting on the outside hindleg. If there is a problem it means youāll have to go back a few steps and establish evenness working on transitions and suppleness on the affected side before moving forward .
2 Likes
Do it with my old (26.5) mare when sheās a little arthritic on the left rein. Seems to help her quite a bit.
Rising to the post on a particular diagonal is a collecting technique for that diagonal. Siting to the post on a particular diagonal is an extending technique.
When we do circle work, the horseās outside diagonal is naturally being ācollectedā to some degree, just by virtue of the circle. We generally rise to the post on the outside diagonal in order to help that process. When we sit to the post on the circle, we are naturally extending the inside diagonal as we sit into the horseās back muscles. While I weight does not change, the muscles impacted by our changing weight distribution are impacted to some degree.
On the straight line along the wall, generally we would also post the outside diagonal because the horse is just a hair bent to the inside. That slight bend allows better control of the horseās outside shoulder.
On the straight line off the wall, it really makes no difference which diagonal is posted because both diagonals should maintain the same length during the forward progression.
However, we can post the āwrongā diagonal in order to work on straightening a crooked horse. We should understand why we are choosing a particular diagonal on which to post,in other words, which diagonal needs more collection within a movement and which diagonal needs more extension within that movement.
Letās use a hollow right horse as example since most horses are hollow right. This means that the diagonal from the horseās left hind to right fore wants to maintain a more flexed, or collected state all the time. The diagonal from the right hind to the left fore wants to maintain a more stretched length all the time. So now we must ask, which diagonal do we post to fix that particular motion.
If we are riding a circle left, we might choose to post the inside diagonal to keep that diagonal from extending quite so much. If we are riding a circle left, since we need that outside diagonal to collect better (remember that is the one that the horse wants to keep stretched), we might choose to post the outside diagonal.
Nothing should ever be written in stone. You must feel what the horse is doing, and adjust what you as the trainer are doing, accordingly. How well you can use your aids within that post depends on if you are correctly weighting your stirrups, ie maintaining your own balance, and how that aid is used to created the correct weight for the change in balance as the movement of the horse changes.
2 Likes
For a greenie, post the inside to speed things up, post the outside to slow things down. Disturbs the position of the rider less to post the inside and use the inside leg.
Lots of other uses too.
The choice of diagonal is dictated by how you need to influence the horse at any given time.
4 Likes
[QUOTE=Equibrit;5236205]
The choice of diagonal is dictated by how you need to influence the horse at any given time.[/QUOTE]
Equibrit, as always, succinct and to the point.
2 Likes
[QUOTE=angel;5236037]
When we do circle work, the horseās outside diagonal is naturally being ācollectedā to some degree, just by virtue of the circle. We generally rise to the post on the outside diagonal in order to help that process. When we sit to the post on the circle, we are naturally extending the inside diagonal as we sit into the horseās back musclesā¦[/QUOTE]
Dang, that royal āweā just cracks me up. :lol: Didnāt know anyone took āDQā to mean they were a real queen. :lol:
