I know, did tell the receptionist and am waiting for a call back. It’s been a roller coaster – I took him in a few weeks ago not expecting to come home with him, but I was told it was his thyroid, maybe Cushing’s and he’d be totally fine with medication. Clearly the symptoms are not his thyroid as the medicine has done squat for him, his Cushings test came up negative and he looks and acts worse and worse. I shouldn’t have let it go this long but I was out of town for a good portion of the intervening time. I just got back last night and it is clear to me today what needs to be done. If this vet won’t do it tomorrow I’ll find one that will and until then, the tramadol should keep him comfortable.
I think it is wrong for anyone to expect the vet to come to the decision-that is the owner’s responsibility to say “it’s time”.
OP-I don’t mean you specifically. I think many people would be happier if the vet told them but I don’t think they ethically can.
I have never in my life expected a vet to come to the decision, MaybeMorgan. I am used to being presented with appropriate treatment options: we could do X, we could do Y, or we could euth. Then I pick.
If I don’t hear euth on the list, I assume the prognosis is good, too good to euthanize. That’s how my horse vets have always done it, I’ve never put a dog down before so perhaps my expectations were unfair. I’ll be better prepared next time.
Why won’t vets euthanize clearly faltering pets?
Because owners won’t TELL THEM TO.
Every time I have a dog who has given up and is in pain I have to TELL the vet what I want done.
Sadly, no, this vet is becoming the norm. Why? Well, frankly, revenue, I fear. Plus it is true that there have been great advances in treatment options so there is always the human tendency to ‘play God’ and think one can cure the animal, but sadly the quality of life for the animal gets the short shrift in the equation.
I do know more than one vet who simply WILL NOT perform euthanasia. Period. Even if humane thing to do. If you need an animal put down, go elsewhere. Frankly I believe that is unethical, but it’s been stated to me by the vets in question (with whom I have never done business, nor would I given such a caveat).
I tell my vet when it’s time. Mind you I do treat my beloved pets when it’s a workable solution- but I am not going to prolong an old animal’s life for the sake of the vet’s ego and income.
Happily, I do have a couple of vets who not only understand and agree with my viewpoint, but will come to the house to put the animals down to save them final trip to vet.
I didn’t mean you specifically so didn’t want you to take it that way. I think it is somewhat different with small animal vets, so not necessarily a bad vet for not bringing it up. Mine told me I can’t tell you when or if to make that decision.
Time for a new vet - surely you have people you can ask for recommendations? I’m really sorry. It’s so hard to see them unhappy.
Years ago when I worked for a small animal vet, we had the occasional client who’d take their fading dog from this practice and go to the nearby, and very well-known, veterinary acupuncturist. They were hoping (and I can’t blame them) that there was maybe a miracle to be found.
Having been through it more often than I care to think about, I do know how hard it is to see a beloved companion decline. I really do. It sucks.
(But what also sucked is that this vet (who is still in practice in a different state) would mess about with the animal for 3-4 months and then send it BACK to us because he couldn’t “do anything more.” It irked my employer beyond belief - “oh yeah, Dr. _______ isn’t good enough to treat the dog, but he’s good enough to kill it.”)
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;6396319]
If I don’t hear euth on the list, I assume the prognosis is good, too good to euthanize. That’s how my horse vets have always done it, I’ve never put a dog down before so perhaps my expectations were unfair. I’ll be better prepared next time.[/QUOTE]
For the record, I can completely empathize with your first explanation. I have never personally been in the situation but it seems clear to me that it is much “easier” to tearfully choose a presented suggestion than to have to a.) raise the issue and then b.) see it through.
I think if the dog is clearly faltering, it would only be a kindness on the vet’s part to gently lay it out there on the table and to make what is already very difficult just that little bit easier. That is not making the decision FOR the owner, it is just presenting all of the options. Watching someone struggle and making them “work for it” seems unnecessary to me.
I do not think your expectations were unfair.
I’ve had my horse vets euth two of my cats (they were indoor-only house cats). The first was because I wanted her euthed at home when her time came after 17 wonderful years. I didn’t want her to be stressed by a car trip to the vet.
The 2nd was an emergency at 6 am after my nearly 20-yr-old suffered a sudden, horrible seizure and was lying there near death, but still hanging on. My vet came immediately and didn’t even charge me a call fee, emergency or otherwise. She just put the euth fee on my next bill for the horses.
I’m so sorry for your JRT’s declining health. I hope you can get him taken care of in the best way possible, for him and you.
With small animals very few vets will suggest or even mention euthanasia unless it’s extremely obviously needed ASAP.
It’s a tough call for a small animal vet and I can understand it in a way. But as long as the owner can bring up the topic and the vet is supportive of the decision, it’s a good vet. It’s a rotten vet that still wants to try everything under the sun.
So sorry OP…tough decision.
Exactly!!! Which is why I asked whether or not the OP had even brought up the subject that “it was time”. Apparently, she didn’t. So I really don’t think the vet was at fault.
Sadly, I suspect some small animal vets are concerned that they not be seen as telling clients to “kill their dog”. The fear being that the client has the animal put down then has regrets/second thoughts/input from know-it-alls. Client then wonders why the vet was in such a rush to kill the dog and if Vet Feelgood could have saved it! Obviously, these are in cases that are judgement calls, not when the animal is clearly suffering with no hope of relief.
And the OPs vet may have legitimately believed he could help the dog and misunderstood the subsequent calls as seeking reassurance or more help.
I havent had this issue with my dogs as I tend to be rather forthright with questions about euthanasia. When my dogs are older, especially, any serious problem has me asking outright if it might be time. When my old dog went blind, my vet thought he could adjust and live happily. I dont think the vet was prolonging things for his benefit or for any reason other than he thought the dog had a chance at more good quality life. And when the dog couldnt adjust and I told the vet it was time, he supported and comforted me.
I agree that the owner usually needs to bring up euthanasia first. When I have an animal that’s critical, I ALWAYS ask the question “what do we need to watch for that’s going to tell us things aren’t getting better”? And I always make the point that “quality of life is paramount to me and I don’t want her to suffer. Please let me know if you feel we’re getting to that point and I’m not seeing it.”
IOW, I share my philosophy regarding euthanasia with my vet.
[QUOTE=MsM;6396489]
Sadly, I suspect some small animal vets are concerned that they not be seen as telling clients to “kill their dog”. The fear being that the client has the animal put down then has regrets/second thoughts/input from know-it-alls. Client then wonders why the vet was in such a rush to kill the dog and if Vet Feelgood could have saved it! Obviously, these are in cases that are judgement calls, not when the animal is clearly suffering with no hope of relief.[/QUOTE]
I think some of it may be the extent of end of life care that is available on the human side. I’m about 10 years into practice (so by no means an old timer) and I find now that there are more people who can’t stomach the idea of committing the act of having a pet euthanized when they wouldn’t do that to grandma. I work ER at the moment, so not clients I have an ongoing relationship. Yesterday I saw a dog who had been sick/not eating/vomiting for a week. Radiographs showed a nasty mass. I explained the severity of what I’d found. Before I could even suggest that it might be time for euthanasia, the clients made it clear that this wasn’t an option and that they just wanted pain meds for their pet. If this had been my best friend’s dog, I would have suggested saying good bye.
I’d say that overall, having read this board for years that horsewomen are far more pragmatic/realistic about this type of issue. As a general rule, I used to include euthanasia as an option for a seriously ill animal, but I’ve actually gotten negative client feedback for this–including one nasty complaint from a woman whose first words were “that she didn’t want her pet to suffer” but then got ripshit afterwards that I’d suggested euth for a 15 year old dog with sudden onset neuro signs. So now, I try to ask clients what they are feeling is appropriate for their pet while emphasizing that they have to advocate for their pet as I’m seeing him/her in a spot moment in time. I emphasize that they know their pet best and I’m going to trust their assessment of their pet.
And for the OP, I certainly would have been supportive if you had asked about euthanasia and I certainly wouldn’t have pushed you to pursue further diagnostics, but I am also ethically obligated to advise you of what you can do (though it doesn’t mean you must do).
((HUGS)) Fordtraktor. I understand what your going through.
I just got home from putting my 15 yr old shep/collie X down, and it was kind of the same thing. Yeah, she was eating and kinda hobbling around, but she was just not having a good time anymore. She had laryngeal paralysis and disc disease, so she couldn’t breathe very well, was falling a lot and was getting stuck on the floor. I know what I did was right for my dog.
Jingles for you in making a hard decision.
I’m just sorry you are going through this!!
I have told my vet that s/he should feel free to tell me if we are “at that point” and for some reason I’ve missed it, although, like you, I know when we’re there. I have had great vets who have been wonderful but obviously its such a hard decision and people handle it differently. Prayers and jingles for you and your boy. Sounds like he will be comfortable and loved- all any of us can ask!!
When you know it’s time, then tell the vet, and don’t ask their opinion. If they refuse find another vet that will do the last kindness your animal deserves. Just like human doctors, some vets think all life should be preserved at all costs, and that isn’t fair to the animal after a certain point, in my opinion.
I had a 19 yo cat, wonderful life with her, had had her from age 1year, but she became diabetic, which was managed with diet for some time, then she became senile, missing the litter box, and eventually needed shots daily. I decided to stop all the extra money and medicines, which, for an aged cat which was impossible for me to handle not being home most of the day, and she was miserable, so I went to the vet and asked her to be put down. The receptionist, not the vet, said “Oh, no, you can keep her going with this treatment or that…” I was furious! First of all, she had no business suggesting treatements, Then when I said so and inisisted this was what I wanted for the animal, and for me, the receptionist did everything she could to make me feel guilty. Fortunately, I am not easily shamed, and had to get angry at her to get her to back off. The whole experience which I had expected to be kind and gentle was instead made miserable and painful, for me, anyway. The vet, I was told, finally, was not in. I had to come back again, the next day, and speak to the vet and listen all over again to possible treatments, which vet had the same judgemental shaming attitude her receptionist did. She was a 19 year old cat! Couldn’t see, couldn’t hear, and to get her put down was agony, and I was shamed and made to feel I was evil. Really pissed me off. I miss my dear Mush. I am sorry it couldn’t have been a better ending for her. Fortunately, the procedure was quiet and quick, but I wish it hadn’t been at the hand af a seething, shaming, judgemental vet. I would have rathered compasion.
What JanM said. You know when it’s time. You know what needs to be done. Delaying is not going to solve anything. Speak directly to your vet, no pussy-footing around. If this vet will not do what is needed, responsible, and kind, you need to find another vet. {{{{{ HUGS }}}}}
i am so sorry, it is hard enough to go thru knowing your pet is ready for the bridge, but to have a vet pull this crap? awful. YOU know your pet is not getting better. there is no quality of life. it is time. I have never encountered such a vet, but if i ever do, they better watch out.
