Oh, please keep in mind that we’ve had a ton of rain and mud mud mud that only dried out this week. For what that’s worth.
Thank you again!
This will be telling. If this farrier knows what he’s doing we should see a pretty well aligned hoof-pastern angle, but it also needs to be clear he’s backing the toe up as much as he can, and then setting the shoe to do the rest.
That would be very helpful if you can get another set of pics right after the trim
I will also be curious to see after photos of the next reset…
There is a lot of room to take the toes back and I would ask about floating the quarters, the curve of the coronary band is a bit of a concern as well. The contracted heels and the likely thrush infection in the central sulcus is probably going to cause some discomfort. Getting some zinc oxide in there will help a lot you can also maybe start some Oxine AH soaks 2x’s a week. The deep wall cracks you see in the picture from the front might indicate a diet that’s not balanced, hoof imbalance and a possible white line infection.
Taking this guy out of shoes and putting him in a set of cloud boots for a few trim cycles might make him comfortable enough to start using the back of his foot and open the heels. I really don’t see that happening in the current set up.
eta: I also wonder how much the farrier is dressing the hoof wall trying to dress the flare, he shouldn’t be going any farther than a 1/3 up the wall. These feet remind me of laminitic feet that have had the walls dressed to smooth out the ridges in the wall.
2 Likes
I am assuming, given what we know of the toes, that the heels are quite underrun, and between that and what looks like overlaid bars, is also causing the lateral flaring. I agree it looks like there was a lot of attempt to remove flare fairly high up, but it’s been long enough since the trim I’m not sure
The stress lines above the toe pillars and the central cracks suggest that the toe pillars were also being left too high for quite a while. It’s hard to tell whether that has been addressed yet.
I agree 100%
It’s worth noting that bars themselves are often the source of caudal pain. It’s hard to tell from the photo exactly how tall the bars are, because of the shoe
.
3 Likes
I agree the shoes make it tough to see what’s going on with the bars… there is likely too much material in there also causing discomfort. Since we know the underrun heels are heels that are too long, I’m sure the bars are too long as well.
@J-Lu is the owner open to pulling shoes and putting him in some cloud boots? That would allow more frequent trims and might give him some immediate relief.
Yes. You can see that the bars have a lot of stress lines in them and are “stacked”, so they’ve possibly/probably? been taking too much weight for a while.
Stacked, thank you! I’ve been looking for a word to describe those lines. Several feet have been the topic of discussion on some FB groups lately, and all I can think of is they look like all the layers of the rocks in the Grand Canyon. Stacked is a great term.
Where do you see this? Which photo and where do you see the stress lines? I’m not sure what I’m looking at. Thanks!
Look at the bars, then follow the bars down into the collateral groove. There are lines that are compaction ridges, or “stacking”
1 Like
Also, “stress lines” isn’t really the best term when talking about the bars. I think the term was in my head because I had just written it with regard to the walls. I would normally say “pressure ridges”, or “compaction ridges” as JB used.
Can you see the “stress lines” in the wall? They are the curved ridges in the wall at the toe pillars (so around 10.00 and 2.00 in the toe area). They aren’t a problem, but they are an indication that there has been an imbalance causing excess pressure at ground level, and this imbalance is usually the cause of a central toe crack. You need to correct this imbalance to be able to grow the toe crack out, and because of the shoe it’s hard to see whether it has been fixed.
3 Likes
@Postandrails Thank you for this detailed explanation. 10 and 2 in the toe area? I’ll take another look. I admit I’m not sure where the toe pillars are and what they are. Can you explain? I will look at this horse tomorrow and bring it up with the veterinarian. I’ll mention what you and other posters have said, and will ask her to chime in on the shoeing. I told the owner I set up this appt before the next shoeing so that the vet can chime in.
The farrier knows what he’s doing. Feel free to come to Siler City at the next cycle and tell him how to shoe a horse. Your best approach would be to discuss shoeing with him, since I don’t think you are a farrier. He’s not likely to listen to you telling him how to shoe a horse. I’m grateful for your responses here but I don’t think you can say “if the farrier knows what he’s doing he’ll do x, y, z”.
1 Like
Sorry! Imagine 10.00 and 2.00 are on a clockface, with 12.00 being centre of the toe. The easiest explanation would be the area to either side of the centre of the toe, or very simply the area where you would almost stop calling it the front of the hoof, but not yet call it the side of the hoof.
Looking at the feet front on, you can also see that the hoof bulges/flares out there. The problem might already be fixed at ground level though. You don’t need (or want) to remove this flaring from higher up where it’s bulging out, it’s best to let it grow out.
Some of the things that are being pointed out aren’t actual problems in themselves, but are indications of what has been going on with the hoof, where imbalances might have occurred, where the hoof might have been under stress, how it might have been trimmed previously (or alternatively what has developed if trimming hasn’t been frequent enough). It is really useful when you find 2 or 3 indicators which all seem to confirm the same thing (like the flaring at the toe pillars, the cracks in the centre of the toe, the small cracks at ground level of the toe pillar all point to the same thing, so it gives you more confidence). This is why people start to point out multiple things.
A lot of it is also just that people who love this hoofcare/trimming stuff also really love talking about it. 
Before you bring any of this up with a vet/farrier, it would be useful to summarise what is actually worth questioning/commenting on, compared to a laundry list of things we’ve spoken about.
12 being the tip of the toe or the frog part of teh toe? Thank you!!!
Think of the clock as the shape (circle) the wall makes when the hoof is on the ground.
Can you copy-paste the pictures to another program and put arrows to what you are talking about?
Thank you for your post!! I so appreciate it. Vet comes tomorrow, farrier comes next Wed. I’m no hoof expert, I defer to them. I just want to bring up stuff and have them tell me it’s not important because of whatever and hear their timeline. That’s just how my brain works. I can say the owner will need a plan because that is how his brain works. I know he is struggling with the fact that previous plans haven’t resulted in a sound horse and he really cares about this horse. He is really trying to grasp what is needed to figure this out. I doubt shoeing is as much of a problem as underlying issues because he’s had good shoers work on his horse. I see that people harp on the angles here and they may be correct, but I’m not sure that any of them are farriers who shoe horses regularly. I might be wrong (I’m sorry if I didn’t recognize farriers who responded!!!). A foot in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Thank you for your summary.
So the wall is at 8 am and 5 pm - ish in the direction of your model?
I wish! I wish we could all do that, because it would be so helpful.
