OK, is this the foot orientation you are talking about? With the 12 pointing to the where the frog is pointing to and the 10 to the left and the 2 to the right? Sorry, my ppt image isn’t loading properly.
Sorry, I must have pressed post before I was finished.
I would tell him to hang in there. I’m not a vet or farrier either, but I would bet money that you’ll get this horse sound. Unfortunately some issues can take a while to resolve, and you sometimes have to go down one path for a little while to see if it is improving things, before you try something else.
Don’t worry about the clock analogy. Language is hard, and I doubt I’m explaining it well enough. The clock was supposed to make it easier, but I think it is making it harder.
See your third photo - the side on shot of the right hoof? See that there is a long-ish crack towards the front of the hoof? Then look for the smaller, slightly deeper crack a couple of inches further back? That whole area, including the wall and the sole underneath is the toe pillar. The corresponding area on the other side of the hoof is the other toe pillar (there are two).
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Yes!
Ohhhh. THANKS!! I’m so grateful for your explanation and I’m learning so much!! Thank you and others!!
Say what? I said 2 cycles isn’t yet enough to know whether this farrier is going to fix these feet. That’s why I said seeing pics after this next trim will be very telling whether is is backing the breakover where it should be, and doing right by the heels. I NEVER said this farrier doesn’t know what he’s doing.
No, I’m not, but I have been trimming for 16 years, so I’m not a noob. I don’t need to know how to shoe to know how to trim, or recognize bigger balance issues
Sure I can. IF he knows what he’s doing, THEN we will see a well-trimmed foot with the shoe doing the work that can’t be fully done by the trim, and that’s exactly what i said. I’m not sure why that’s such a concerning statement
The alternative is to see a new trim that leaves too much toe and a shoe set out at the end of that long toe. If we were to see that, then I would absolutely say it’s time to find a new farrier.
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OK, vet update! Owner couldn’t be there but I held his horse while his wife held his phone while he “Facetimed” with the vet and watched the appointment.
Vet saw how stiff he was out of the stall and didn’t remember him being this stiff up front previously. She didn’t think the toes were too long (I specifically asked) and wasn’t concerned about the flair pattern. Hoof testers were negative on both soles and she was not concerned about the soles too much. Horse was sensitive with hoof testers on frogs. Testers across the back of the hoof across the bars were negative. She blocked the back of the lamer foot (the white foot) which solved about 80% of the problem.
She opted to take this in stages.
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She wants him in 2-3 degree wedge shoes to support the heels with a pad over the frog for support. She talked about frog support that doesn’t cover the whole sole. She will call my farrier to discuss this and send him the recent radiographs so they can also discuss that.
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She’d like for me to send a video of the horse walking and trotting a week after the shoeing. If all looks well, they’ll chalk things up to the shoeing.
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If not, she’ll recommend a certified veterinarian with a high-quality ultrasound to image the navicular bursa and ddft. If nothing shows up,
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coffin joint injections.
She floated the idea that it could be the onset of navicular syndrome.
I’ll post pictures after the next shoeing. Thank you for your input! And again, I apologize to JB!
@J-Lu, you might want to get yourself a copy of the book “Horseshoeing Theory and Hoof Care” by Leslie Emery, Jim Miller and Nyles Van Hoosen.
This book WILL educate you enough so that you can start to see what is wrong with a hoof. The authors spend a number of pages on what a good, healthy hoof is and looks like, and how bad trimming can lead to problems both in the hoof and further up the leg. The authors also spend a lot of pages (with illustrations) describing how bad trimming and shoeing can cause the horse problems like navicular disease.
Before I got too crippled I was trimming my horses (all barefoot) and also trimming two of the lesson horses I used to ride following the directions in this book. I did succeed in improving the horses’ hooves, and when a blacksmith worked on those horses’ hooves I always asked if I was doing something wrong. The blacksmiths said what I did was fine, and I think they appreciated that they could spend less time under the horse trimming hooves I had been working on.
Unfortunately the only copy available on Amazon right now is expensive—$59.95, but I assure you that this book is worth every penny and has saved me hundreds of dollars over the decades.
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Thank you!!! Thank you so much!
I sure could use an education on foot care because I have little independent knowledge and have just absorbed what farriers over the decades have told me.
My vet worked with the last farrier and will work with this farrier, and she’s leaning towards genetic issues with this horse. I guess we’ll know more with ultrasound and I really, really hope they send the horse for a MRI at NC State (fueled by the upstream video showing the difference between radiographs, ultrasound and MRI) but that is unlikely. This horse was actually bred by NC State but I’m not sure how much they breed for quality versus how much they breed for instruction. Of course, there are always outliers in any breeding program.
Thanks again for that recommendation! I will look for this book and check it out.
What an excellent article. Thank you! I fear this horse ticks many of the boxes of navicular syndrome described early on in the article. I will forward this to the owner after the shoeing. Before then, he’d just panic. He has a lot going on. THANK YOU!
Excellent article. Thank you. I will forward this as well.
I was able to purchase a copy for much cheaper off of ebay just now. Thank you for the suggestion.
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Careful, it’s a slippery slope to the dark side. I think most non professionals who ended up really interested in hooves started because of one particular horse with issues.
I’m really pleased that you have a plan of attack for the horse. The owner must be feeling much better with a bit more hope.
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Thank you. I suggest I just don’t know enough to be on the slippery slope to the dark side. I have a great relationship with my vets and farriers and they answer my many questions and I ultimately defer to them. I don’t know much in comparison.
The owner is feeling much better and with more hope, thanks!!! I’m so happy he was able to facetime during the exam and talk to the vet directly! I’m happy that it turned out I was available for his vet appointment and will be for the farrier on Wed in terms of continuity. The owner is incredibly grateful that the stars aligned for this. So am I, since this has been such an ongoing problem for him and I feel so sorry as to why this horse has had such soundness issues. I’ve become rather invested in helping him understand why a horse could be off and that it isn’t 100% his fault. It could be genetics. He is feeling quite guilty taking on the responsibility rather than the horse’s genetics and structure.
Next update on Wed hen the farrier shoes him.
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I just want to confirm that by “dark side” I meant wanting to keep learning more and more about it. 
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I’m a scientist and want to go down the rabbit hole. But I also know what rabbit holes are unproductive to my brain because I’m just not going to be keen on that subject. Thanks!!
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Well, Farrier came out today after talking with the vet. Farrier has put size 2 shoes upfront because he thought the size 0 shoes were restricting this horse’s hoof growth. He noted the walls were very thin but the soles were OK. I mentioned that this horse was bred by NC state for halter or WP, and originally trained WP and he said “it figures”. He disagrees with the idea of flair, and states that he wants the hoof to grow out because this horse is seemingly sensitive to nails due to the thin walls and previous shoeing didn’t let the hoof grow out. He thinks that by letting the hoof grow out more he won’t be so sensitive to the nails. He thinks this horse is very sensitive to the nails. On the shoeing I posted, he mentioned he intentionally moved the shoes back to promote breakover, but didn’t seem to work for this horse.
Vet suggested wedge leather pads, and while the farrier thought there would be a cheaper solution, he agreed to the wedge leather pads with fill. I held this horse for this today. Pics to come.
ETA, Vet shared year old radiographs, she wants more current one. Owner is amenable.
