His pinto dam’s damline goes back to Tina, who is the dam of Samber, arguably one of the most famous sires of quality pinto Warmbloods.
Willem competes at Grand Prix, so he’s got a bit of talent
Can’t find that stallion but did land on a backyard registry call Friesian Heritage of which Pinto Baroque is a subset. Basically a registry for anything that’s at least 25% Friesian.
Looks like drum horse and gypsy vanner cobs are in the mix too.
I can’t speak to the Pinto Baroque registry, but it’s not the same as Barock, where Friesian blood must beat least 37.5%, and Friesian and Warmblood blood, that’s it.
I’m not a big fan of harness or draft horses under saddle and I don’t love Friesians as riding horses.
Gelderlanders and Dutch Harness Horses make fantastic riding horses, with there being more riding types, and more harness types.
Ok, thanks for clearing that up. The OP stated Pinto Baroque not Barrock which is what sent me to the funky registry, which gave me the wrong impression. When I searched the horses name plus Pinto Baroque I got no hits.
What I don’t love about Friesians and Friesian crosses as riding horses is that they can be narrow chested and have less powerful hindquarters.
As carriage horses they are spectacular. Obviously there is a lot of variation in quality and gait among them. I watched a driving demo once that had about a dozen Friesians in single, double, four in hand, etc., and the difference in trot step was really interesting to watch, some were high and snappy, others were big and lower. We have a big Dutch descent farming community here and some of them have been into good Friesians for a while.
The black and white pinto Willem is clearly a quality horse with high level training.
At the same time he’s not really my cup of tea. I like a lighter more fluid movement. Probably my ideal warmblood would look like a tb with a lot of substance. And for Baroque horses I like Iberians. This however is personal taste
I agree there are a lot of terrible crosses out there. More mediocre and poor, than good. But there definitely are good ones, when it’s a quality Friesian, and the right type and quality of non. Some breeds tend to cross with them much better than others - Arabians and Morgans are high on that list. Too many people choose the carriage types because of their fancy flash, as the cross for a riding horse. Check Iron Spring Farm’s Friesian stallions - much more substantial rear ends than many.
For a while the Friesian registry wouldn’t allow crossbreeding of approved stallions, which pretty much guaranteed the crosses wouldn’t be top quality. I understand that rule no longer exists.
Well that isn’t entirely true. The American branch of the Dutch registry (FHANA, the American subset of FPS) didn’t allow cross breeding. However FPS did allow it and eventually forced FHANA to follow the registry rules. If I ordered frozen semen from a Dutch stallion, I could use it in my non-Friesian mare. Meanwhile, the German registry, FPZV, always allowed cross breeding. The German registry was always a smaller registry, and stallion approval was more similar to Warmblood stallion approval, with a 30 day stallion test, it even included a cross country jumping test.
There are are some super nice Friesians and crosses out there, and some lesser quality ones too. I can say the same exact thing about Warmbloods. Realize not all people cross breed Friesians for sport. Because of their super temperament, and overall beauty, many cross breed for a nice all around family horse. When the are purpose bred for dressage, they are often awesome horses.
Narrow chests are probably the result of breeding to Saddlebreds, which was a popular cross with a few breeders, especially in the MidWest. Made for big trots, and lots of fun colors. Not necessarily a dressage ideal breeding, but not everyone is a dressage breeder.
Indeed I saw a saddle bred Friesian cross. Great lofty trot on the long side of the arena. But he was so narrow when he turned to face you he almost disappeared and not a very handy or collected horse. He was in dressage training. I don’t know what happened to him.
Things like basic good riding horse confirmation should apply to all around horses as well. Actually I’m not someone for whom the sun rises and sets on Warmbloods nor do I think dressage is the only discipline. But if the stallion is being marketed with a video showing him schooling Grand Prix dressage movements then it’s fair to comment on how well he does it.
I think there’s a paradox in dressage breeding wherebye the characteristics that give a horse an amazing big trot don’t always go along with a super adjustable canter and natural ability to collect. When you get them all in one package the horse is very valuable.
But without the good canter you don’t get very far. I watch my friend’s rather green teenaged standardbred in turnout and he absolutely floats. He carries himself in perfect “dressage frame.” It is a glorious trot. He lifts at the base of the neck, uses his hind end, extends, the whole deal. If you could get that trot into the dressage ring it would be spectacular. But it’s an uphill climb for him on the rest of the package, and I wouldn’t take it on. He’s perfectly happy as a trail horse and is apparently learning to rack which is cool.
I do also know a couple of Friesian/QH crosses that seem like good all around horses, but probably not going over 3 foot or very high in dressage despite the nice neck carriage.
Saddlebred/QH can be a surprisingly nice cross, though it doesn’t sound like it.
There is one breeder who created a registry for the Saddlebred crosses because they breed a LOT of them every year. Actually, they allow draft OR Friesian crossed to Saddlebred since they stand both draft and Friesian stallions. The husband’s name is George, hence “Georgian” Grande.
So if they came from that breeder, they are usually registered as GG. If they came from a different breeder, they are most often registered with FHH. There are a lot of small registries out there - for all kinds of horses and ponies! When I pick up the annual USDF Yearbook, I’m always surprised to find registries I know nothing about - and they are participating in All Breeds!
MOST of the Friesian crosses end up in Friesian Heritage Horse Registry (FHH), which is the largest of the Friesian cross registries, and has the most services, including DNA testing (both to prove the Friesian lineage; and to test for specific health issues, especially important for purebred breeding Friesians), inspections using a licensed judge, USDF awards, awards programs for all disciplines, specialty books for specific crosses, education for owners, etc.
@MysticOakRanch that is really interesting! DAD breeders’ week was always interesting! There was such a mixture of various people trotting the triangle. I had never heard of a lot of the breeds that were shown there, and the handlers from Europe laughed a lot.
I loved watching the Friesian horses ISF brought. I got to know a few folks from that farm, and it was really interesting talking to them - DAD was my very first intro to the breed. I was honestly a bit disappointed to learn they don’t really have much jump in them LOL!
