Hey I see you’ve been to my farm! 
I used a folding table though, not a lawn chair!
I am not forgetting that at all.
Signed someone who worked in a city for 30 years. Locked my car, left nothing in it, parked in the safest spot I could but I still had to replace my window regularly and periodically things they detached from my (not expensive or even nice) car. Oh, and I guess the time I was mugged I should not have been walking down a sidewalk in the middle of the day to go to my vehicle.
Bad people are bad. Removing a frown face from the sign will not make them suddenly decide to not be bad.
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Why isn’t his policy posted on his website? It is.
Why isn’t it posted on social media? It is.
There really need to be signs at the entrance. There are.
What about at the exits! There are.
Well, it says drop off checks upon exit but doesn’t specify to Venmo upon exit, that’s the victim’s fault he wasn’t clear.
That frowny face isn’t serious, I see no reason to pay, clearly it is the victim’s fault that I didn’t.
Victim loses shit on social media…but why didn’t he do something about this ahead of time, it’s clearly his fault he did nothing about this!!!
At this point with posters here giving multiple excuses as to why payment isn’t sent, fencing the entire course in barbed wire and installing a guard tower with machine guns and robots is likely the only option.
Frankly, even with a payment controlled gate (how much does that cost to install?) or someone staffing the entrance (how much do we pay them?) people are still going to find a reason around payment, and people on COTH are going to blame the property owner.
Or, just close the entire thing.
(and, I am still not excusing the social media out burst)
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It’s fine… until everyone rallies behind one party and comes at the other party.
That’s the problem with these social media situations. We don’t know what we don’t know.
You see a moment in time of one person behaving “badly” and another person behaving “correctly.” Then it becomes this whole thing where people take sides and double down in their support and/or condemnation of each side.
And low and behold, the situation is always much more nuanced than it appears.
I think it’s good that we have been able to expose problem in our sport thanks to social media. But also, not every situation needs the internet’s vigilante justice.
This situation appeared to be a David versus Goliath story when it’s really just a conflict between individuals.
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Not knowing anyone involved, or the local economy - would it make ANY sense at all to hire an older adult who may need some spare cash to be at that gate and collect the money/witness electronic payment for ALL the horses on the trailer?
I realize the margins are razor thin and this may be more hassle with taxes & paperwork than it is worth, but perhaps it would minimize these issues.
Or maybe every weekend and one or two days mid-week? Make it random, to keep everyone on their toes?
Or a rider who does this 4 days a week in exchange for x number of rides on the property?
I suspect this has been thought of and ruled out for various reasons, but who knows? Maybe the right person would apply and chasing people down would subside by a great deal.
ETA: if 4 horses are brought, but only 3 ridden, the person could plead their case directly to the owner, later. But the money will already have been paid so that would minimize one headache.
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Very true.
I’m still in awe of the reactions to this situation though. Can’t wrap my head around it.
Oh well.
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FWIW, I don’t take one side or the other in a personal sense.
My stance is not pro-CC, it’s anti the behaviour I can see in BM’s written texts, his first hysterical FB post, his second almost identical FB post, and that he has left that 2nd post up and allowed hundreds of immoderate comments to pile up under it.
I’m pro-act like a professional, control your emotional outbursts and, when you don’t, own it and make amends.
It makes little difference to me who the two parties are. It’s the behaviour we need to stop normalising and excusing. I’m focused on the behaviour, not the person. Others want to keep focusing on the personalities involved and that’s their thing, not mine.
That someone cannot wrap their head around that is a ‘them’ problem, but leaders/professionals behaving badly is not good for the sport or the community.
In this case, we can see direct evidence of BM’s behaviour in his written comms - not vague references to ‘you don’t know CC’, etc. You and a few other allude to CC having the same behavioural issues and I believe you that you’ve had bad experiences with her, I genuinely do. If I could see direct evidence of that behaviour, I’d call it out, for sure. Unfortunately, we can only see direct evidence of BM’s behaviour in this specific incident. We can only comment on what we see direct evidence of and, as many others have said, many of us don’t think there is any excuse for the behaviour we can see. Just do better, for the good of your rep, the sport, and the community.
That is all.
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I think you are missing the point.i was trying to make which is Boyd needs to make some sort of change if he wants this to stop happening. You and others on this thread come across like he has no responsibility in this matter. How hard would it be to have people pay online before they got there? How hard would it be to make an electronic sign in /out sheet so you know who is oh your property and can track them down if they don’t pay? If I was doing this I would be making sure that people paid the fee and signed the waiver before they set foot on my property. ( because I am willing to bet the same people who don’t pay the fee often forgot to sign the waiver). We can agree to disagree about the signs, but he needs to do something if he doesn’t want this to keep happening. At the end of the day it’s Boyd who is losing out on the income and it’s Boyd’s reputation that takes a hit every time he comes unhinged on social media.
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raising hand here
We have that on all of our -80 freezers amd exactly ONE person ever signs in and out. The person who receives the alarms on their phone when someone had the door open too long and the temp has risen. If it doesn’t stop within 10 minutes said individual has to drive to the job site, override the alarm, check that it’s not something worse than stupidity/laziness/sloppiness on the part of an individual who knows better and if not at home, has to call, text or email various people in the upper echelon to deal with it.
This is a secure building, but we do not have the money or ability to put these freezers in their own special room, with access codes, for a variety kf reasons. We already have a flood truck dedicated to this one building… For which this individual is NOT paid for coming back to work to rescue the freezers or contents, 24/7/365. The day this person retires (and I know their planned date!) won’t be the day it goes to hell. But give it a week or a month…
Anyway, to get to my point, I suspect the only way to stop scofflaws is to have a person at the gate all day long, to handle the cash or checks or to witness them paying via Venmo, Zelle or what have you.
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But every single time you asked why he didn’t have something to blame him (originally you thought it wasn’t on his website) and someone told you he did, you’ve had some reason that wasn’t enough.
Even down to saying you would blatantly ignore the angry emoji sign.
I have no doubt even if he did have an electronic sign up you’d find some way around it to blame him for not taking enough precautions to not being a victim.
Again, not saying his reaction was appropriate.
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Just make it like a pay to park situation, such as an airport parking garage.
You can only get out or get in via a gate that opens with proof of purchase. Whether it’s a scanner that scans a barecode on a digital or paper receipt, or via some sort of payment kiosk. I get that some people like to write checks, but it’s a your property your rules type of thing, so you could do away with the whole check thing if you can’t find a way to accommodate that type of payment. We have the technology.
You could pull up with your digital receipt from paying online and have your phone scanned. Or you could pay at a kiosk and have a printed receipt that scans. I dunno, there are probably a few ways to go about this. I’m just throwing a rough idea out there.
Sure there’s an initial investment, but man, if it saves hours, headaches, and social media outbursts, it’d be worth it.
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I think you are missing the point.
He has made LOTS of changes.
You seem to think Boyd Martin is the only land owner who has problems with people taking advantage of his property. He is not.
These problems are not new.
Many of the “solutions” being tossed around just aren’t practical.
I think the crux of this problem is that Boyd has been extra generous.
I’m definitely not an “expert” on the history of Windurra, but he and Silva have built that place from the ground up, piece by piece. This is not a multimillion dollar equestrian playground that he had to have. It started as a cow pasture and they plopped down prefab shedrow barns and electric tape fencing (which still exist). He got out there on the tractor and started building jumps himself, and he let others in the community use them. Over time, they added nicer arenas, a track, an indoor, a place to swim horses, etc… Allowing the community to use them has helped fund all these improvements. It’s a win-win for everyone.
But what happens is people start feeling entitled to the property.
Something I don’t think people understand is just how many horse businesses and trainers there are within a short drive of Windurra. This area of the world has quite a phenomenon of a lot of professionals, most of whom are only known locally. A lot of these professionals have basically turned Windurra into an extension of their business, regularly bringing out clients or horses for lessons or schooling. We’re talking multiple times a week. That’s a lot of wear and tear of the property. Then some of these professionals have the audacity to imply they don’t have to follow the rules because they’ve been coming there forever, or they have paid a lot of money over the years, or whatnot. That’s freakin’ annoying. Should you go postal on those people? No… but I can appreciate why a landowner might snap.
At one time “outsiders” could only school at Windurra as part of a lesson with an “approved” trainer. I don’t know why they stopped that; I can only imagine it got somewhat messy since there are a lot of people in the area who don’t need a lesson. Plus, it was mentioned up-thread, then you have the challenge of policing who is schooling XC, who is conditioning, who is there to use the arena, etc.
An “easy” solution would be to stop allowing the public to use your property, but boy that would suck for everyone!
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I can see that not working if someone pays in advance for x number of horse(s) but brought and rode still more.
I mean, it might be better than relying solely on signs but obviously at least one person has done it in the past. Which to me means the hassle & expense of a human may be the best way to minimize the problem.
It’s a shame.
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I did not see this attitude in the text messages. The messages from CC were professional, apologetic and planned to correct any issue moving forward.
In the Uk most of the schooling facilities are book and pay online before you arrive.
I can’t imagine if anyone on this board had an arrangement like they have for years, that this post wouldn’t have taken you by surprise when you have paid that way consistently before.
Equestrians are notoriously unprofessional when it comes to their businesses, this is just another example of that. Lessons be learned to all the observers.
Never bend rules for anyone, even friends.
Wait a day or two before you post online about your anger, by then you likely won’t care but the damage will have been done.
Always pay for the service before you leave the driveway, unless otherwise discussed. Even then, better safe than sorry.
Learn how to make electric payments, get with the times.
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True. There’s faults with all methods, really. Because humans.
So yeah, would still need monitoring by human.
What a pain to always have to monitor things like paying for x amount of horses and bringing or schooling x amount of horses.
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This part of your post I fully agree with.
A lot of the problems we see in the horse world are because non-business people are trying to run a business.
Plus, there are so many complications-- horses are expensive and time-consuming, so solutions like “hire a business manager” or “educate yourself in business” aren’t always feasible.
Horses blur the line between business and hobby; friendships and pets v. clients and commodities. It can be tricky to find the balance.
But the excuses kill me. “I don’t know how to do electronic payments.” “I don’t know how to do anything online.” “This is how we’ve always done it.” Etc. etc.
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This is a really good observation. I’m actually surprised there isn’t a higher fee for professionals teaching on that property as CC was. If those individiduals are putting a lot of wear and tear on the course AND they themselves are getting financial gains from the use, it would make sense that it’s 80 for individuals, 100/hirse for users who are teaching on the property. Trainers could pass it on directly to students.
I think it’s genuinely awful that people in the area are taking advantage, CC included if she is one of those. You’re a repeat player FFS, act like a good neighbour and fellow professional. Build your community.
If Boyd is really being taken advantage of as much as you locals say (and I believe you), it’s even more upsetting that he blew his top so publicly b/c it does harm his rep and turn people off him.
I don’t think the solution is for him to close it b/c that would materially reduce his cash flow and he needs it (and deserves it for opening up the facilities and maintaining them). Maybe a couple good cameras and just a WS or someone not Boyd could review the video and match it up with the payments? A month or two of knowing you’re on camera might sober up the bad actors?
The one-month ban for non-payment is totally reasonable and a perma-ban (if he wants) for a second infraction.
If she spends a lot of money there, I hope they work out an arrangement if for no other reason than it would be a shame for him to lose that income.
FWIW, I think he could easily raise prices 10-20 across the board and still those fees would be shocking bargains.
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you are proving my point. We are all here because Boyd became angry and posted on social media about this issue. Something he has done multiple times. If he was to address the issue so he didn’t have to rant on social media about it I wouldn’t comment at all because I WOULD NOT KNOW about it. Again I wish people would respect Boyd enough as a property/ business owner to pay him the fees before they left the property, but they don’t. So if he wants things to change the change will have to come from him.
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Sometimes the best way to get people to do something is to hold a very public execution of someone who didn’t. I have personally orchestrated this kind of over-reaction at job sites to achieve a goal when the people there were too ignorant to learn any other way. You over-react and shame or fire someone who isn’t worth the trouble very publicly and it’s amazing how the rest of the group shape up and accept your authority.
It’s a tactic and a useful one, especially in a small group where people assume they will get away with bending the rules or make every excuse in the book and think you’ll have to put up with it. Like half the people posting here.
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It’s quite unfortunate, but you’re right.
Granted, you still get the, “doesn’t apply to me” and “wouldn’t happen to me” types out there. Especially in this industry.
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